The Pilgrim here is NOT the Pilgrim in the City!

[Pulse St. John]

That's fine. I buy my bears in bulk.

[Katastrophe St. John-Talon]

Jul 8, 2009 17:42:59 GMT -8 Pulse St. John said:

That's fine. I buy my bears in bulk.

*eyes his signature with a smirk* I see that.

[Brom Naomo]

*tuts, shakes his head and turns the page*

[Brom Narum]

*sighs and shakes his head*

Happy hunting?

[Katastrophe St. John-Talon]

((OOC: Deleting this out because it was bad roleplay on my part and I was too tired to catch it. Sorry.))

[black_dragonet]

The person who disguises as another and tries to both bring harm to another and defile their reputation really is a coward of the worst sort...

This is utterly disgusting.

[Whitefang]

Okay... Not that I am defending him or anything, but... how many of you have banners in your photobucket that aren't for your vampire?

Anyone ever thought that maybe, just maybe, all he did was make a banner?

[Lord Galamushi Dawn]

Jul 8, 2009 19:21:09 GMT -8 Azeara Ezil said:

((OOC: Liander: Beth, I can't log onto the Bite right now. My password is at my dad's house, written in a notebook I keep all my passwords in. Can you please tell Galamushi that I'm not the guy pretending to be Pilgrim?

I'm not saying whether nor not I believe him. He admits to making the banner, but not to impersonating the pire. He stated that he did not want to jepordize 'his position in the Ferrymen'. He asked me to relay this message so I have. No shooting the messenger, please.))

((I doubt it. I have 75 SSed pires with different passwords. If you can send a message you can sign into the bite and have your password sent to you.))

Jul 9, 2009 10:41:03 GMT -8 Whitefang said:

Okay... Not that I am defending him or anything, but... how many of you have banners in your photobucket that aren't for your vampire?

Anyone ever thought that maybe, just maybe, all he did was make a banner?

I have over 1000 photo's in my photo bucket, all for my Slaves and or for vampires I know and use my photobucket.

So if he made a banner with the content to have it fraudulently used then he must know the person who did use it. Seeing that their is 8 billion photos on photo bucket it's not likely someone he didn't know picked up that banner at random and used it here in RBC and in the bite.

Odds are 1 billion to 1 someone else used it without him knowning it. Either way thats Conspiracy to Commit Identity Fraud. That means in the absent of another Lainder is the prime suspect.

RavenBlack justice is simple. Minim proof demands Maxim punishment.

I see 3 options.

1. Admit your mistake in public. Take all the blame and offer yourself up for your zero. The most Honorable way. No one else gets hurt and you pay a price in blood so that others wont be tempted in the future to try the same bullshit.

2. Give up your conspirator(s) and the guilty party and have them as well as yourself open to attack and called a rat. It has no honor but it might save your own skin like a coward.

3. Dennie it. Lie or what ever it takes to act like you had nothing to do with it. Cower in the dark and behind what little protection your clan or family will offer for your most dishonorable act and have friend and family loose blood for your mistake. This is the most dishonorable way out.

The choice is yours. I will do everything in power now to see you are punished.

Personally I'd like to know what black_dragonet has to say on this since he always has something wise to say. This is because I hold him in high respect as an elder and value his opion as well as Brutus and Miranda my sire.

[smitsmit]

Is Liander still in the Midnights? To me this seems like a midnight prank to try to get the real pilgrim attacked. Eg, the faux pilgrim sig banner advertised midnights, and Henry Key's rebuttal a few posts ago really makes it seem feasible. I had thought Liander left the midnights a few months ago. So why would he randomly do this? Unless someone in the midnights asked him to make the banner as a favour.

[Katastrophe St. John-Talon]

Liander's Last Login Date: Yesterday at 5:39pm

((And since Azzy's post was OOC, I can only note that according to my time, her post was made at 10:21pm on the same date. So yeah, Beth, you're being lied to, babe, unless he's being foolish and giving out his password--that he doesn't have access to--to someone else.))

Not sure why he's having such a hard time coming forward to defend himself, if in fact, he is innocent. Seems like he doesn't have a problem reading all of this.

[Azeara Ezil]

((OOC: Isn't this the IC section still? Mushia player, love... *cringes* I beg you to take all that OOC out of your IC post. >.<

I know Justin was lying. He does that. He is also a whining three year old who blames everyone else if he does something wrong or something doesnt go his way. I posted per his request to shut the brat up. *shurgs* Besides. Check out the Photobucket account connected to the banner he is using for Liander. Trust me, the lazy thing does not make his own work unless he absolutely has too. He made that one himself so there would be no 'witnesses' from him requesting one. He also know I will never ever ever never ever never make anything that has the "Midnights" on it. Justin completely ruined them for in on the OOC level. Any who... So yeah, the fact that the banner was on his profile proves that he was up to something.

Oh, and the Ian Noble banners are for another character of Justin's that he uses on DAF. I will personally vouch that that is is indeed his character and not another of his impersonation attempts.

I will not respond IC to this thread as I believe it has gone totally OOC anyways. Shukuran. ^^))

[Do Not PM this Account.]

((Sam, learn to separate. I'm tired of warning you for being completely unable to separate IC and OOC.

The rest of you, take the OOC talk to the OOC section.))

[black_dragonet]

There are not many things that are unique to each one of us.
There are not many things that are dear to each one of us.

Our name, the name we took after we were sired is one such things.
Our name is our entry key to the city, and without it, we're as vulnerable and puny as a mere human. A name belongs to only one person. I completely fail to see what a valid reason to take another's name could be.

I however can see countless reasons why someone would want to have a go at someone or their reputation.
There are countless more or less honourable ways to achieve that goal
- verbal trashing
- gathering cronies to spew filth
- starting rumours
- in-city insults
- a good ol' HW/GS/SoT (pick your favourite)
- Descending Angels
- Splinters of Dusk
- other ways you can think of.

Strangely enough, taking their name does not belong to that list...
There are not that many taboos in the city, and even less on which everyone agrees (well, almost, actually, or so it seems). I think it's just the only one that even midnights didn't plan on breaking.
So what? So, just a little warming to make it clear how much I think the act in itself is just shit, wherever one looks at it, however one tries to cover, it just stinks... to the point where I don't want to be (even remotely) associated with someone who did just that.

The act is so rotten that my first thought was that it was another one of Blutengel's experiment in stupidity. Because well, I know that once he has reached the bottom of vampiric stupidity, he's likely to start digging.

There is an act, on which I feel justified to issue a judgement, and then a vampire. I don't like to judge vampires. Sometimes, we have to do things we don't really like though.
There's no such thing as a proof in the city, even less on an on-line newspaper, so we'll have to make do with good ol' intimate conviction.

On the good side, we have the fact, that though I see him as a known prankster and former Midnight member, he has not been known to me to be a transgressor, until now at least.
The guy looks to me like a decent fellow that's just delusional in his conviction that he can achieve greatness without the hard work that goes with along with it.

On the less good side, we have his history of following his impulsions, or should I say compulsion. The guy does only what he wants, which is not necessarily bad in itself, but under the present circumstances belongs to the less good side.
What weighs a lot more than his personality is his behaviour, the factual and circumstantial evidence that we have: the banner was hosted on his picture account.
What weighs most to my eye is his behaviour. When this all started, he didn't say that the “new” banner was of his doing. Once someone points out that evidence has been found, then we have Liander go to an unfortunate friend, and tell her that he couldn't access his account, which we know to be a factual lie, since we have evidence he was able to log in the bite. This makes him a liar, and I might a rather poor and obvious one at that.
Once again, being a liar and someone I don't get on well with is something that happens in the city.

The thing is that bragging and evading questions and lying is not something one does when facing a most serious accusation like this one, because it just makes them look as a guilty person.
The level of stupidity required to do just that is exactly the one that is required to think about and execute a stupid trick like the one with Pilgrim.
That level of stupidity was attained by Liander. That is fact.

His behaviour throughout this all probably is more telling than the fact the banner was on his Photoshack. That still does not make him a guilty person.
My personal conviction is that he indeed did it, but I don't have a proof he did, so I'd let him go with that. On the other hand, I'd NOT let him go with the lying and being a douche when there's such a serious matter going on.

Identity theft on the paper is just the smaller version of hijacking the paper, which we know has been done twice in recent months. This is serious, and anyone being a fuckhead in such circumstances needs to be taught the value of thinking before opening the mouth to utter a stupid and obvious lie.

Generally speaking, I think that neither me nor you reader should have a say in what should or should not be done to him.
This all has taken place on an on-line paper, whose owner are Coquette and Louvain. They are the ones whose work has been put to jeopardy. They are the ones who should decide what the proper answer to his proven and suspected behaviour should be.
Thus, and except if Liander were to prefer trading whatever shall be decided against him for a good old zeroing, I'd advise against it, in favour of a temporary exclusion from the paper.


Were more substantial evidence to be found, I might then reconsider my position.


Pilgrim, sorry for you it had to fall on you.
It could have been me, it could have been any of us.

*bows* Those were my humble thoughts on the matter at hand.

((Edit: mistook Alchemist who started the thread and Pilgrim who is the victim))

[◞◯◟]

None of this surprises me; Liander will never change despite his protests that he will.

[Lord Galamushi Dawn]

Thank you very much black_dragonet. I will take your advice into consideration.

Jul 9, 2009 15:49:15 GMT -8 Do Not PM this Account. said:

((Sam, learn to separate. I'm tired of warning you for being completely unable to separate IC and OOC.

The rest of you, take the OOC talk to the OOC section.))

((Internet fraud is IC since his acts as a vampire were done as a vampire pertending to be another vampire on an online fourm. I don't see how anything I said was OOC other then responding in OOC to OOC talk. You were asked to be a fair and just admin of this paper to look into the IP used to make Lainder and Pilgrims posts I have yet to have any reply. This would go far in adding the proof black_dragonet discussed.))