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Post by Bug Merovingian on Nov 4, 2009 21:10:03 GMT -8
The Night Watch…. When I was new to this city, I often found myself lost and without direction. I remember, after having grown frustrated from being without direction, when I spoke my first words aloud in the city. It was to one of the Transit Guards. I don’t remember my exact words, nor to which guard I spoke, and yet I received the help I needed to begin me on my path. I will grant that perhaps any group out there could, or would have done the same. And yet I can not help but hold some gratitude toward the Night Watch and how it operates. There have been times in the past when I needed every coin I had for gaining my powers, and yet the transit guards always seemed ready to lend a few for a free ride. This was a boon for me when I needed it the most. I have seen also when they have protected the Grave Yard, and assisted others in the transit stations. To me this is a good thing. Here is another thing that I feel is good, and this is from the NW and was originally, I believe, written on Oct 20th 2003: Code 103: The NightWatch's duties include the policing of those individual vampires who are clanless, and those who are members of a clan, but who's issue falls outside the realm of a "clan-war" Splinters of Dusk…. I view the Splinter’s as the drug pushers of the city. The service(s) they provide do not allow for one’s personal true gratification. If one would want another harmed or even sent to Torpor but would hire the Splinters to make this happen, they are being robbed of the gratification of knowing that they have actually accomplished something. The Splinters give people a false sense of gratification much like a simple narcotic would do for the humans. On another level this allows for people who are so attached to their own blood to make other’s lose their’s. The Splinters have said, and I quote Poison Ivy from the Night Watch Halls “We do it to spread our knowledge, our belief, that blood means nothing.” Say this is the case, then why would they themselves perpetuate helping “blood lovers” in keeping their precious blood levels? I have said this before in other ways, but I feel it needs repeating. The ideals of the Splinters are flawed from the very platform from which they base themselves. They are based on false pretenses and ideals, and strive to force logic into these selfserving interests to perpetuate thier own wants or needs. To me the Splinters promote laziness, cowardice, and blood loving. And on the more insidious levels they rob people of a sense of personal accomplishment, and eventually selfworth. Oftentimes the left hand does not know what the right is doing or is this another case of the falseness that is the Splinters of Dusk? This is entirely wrong, I am afraid. For starters, it is widely stated that we do not make a profit on contracts - so how, then, are we to make money? from the halls of the Night Watch People have questioned, in their own manner, as to why the Night Watch would attack members of the Splinters of Dusk. The long and short of it is this “Code 103: The NightWatch's duties include the policing of those individual vampires who are clanless, and those who are members of a clan, but who's issue falls outside the realm of a "clan-war".” They are obligated to do so based upon their own rules. I for one am glad to see them doing something about an issue such as this. They are basically outside the realm of normal clan politics, just as the Splinters are. I am quoting black_dragonet as it has baring on what I am saying here: Actually, I find it logical. Splinters stand for chaos, when Nightwatch stands for order. That the two oppose is logical, even if I would not fight this fight that way. In a way, Nightwatch and Splinters should have the same views on blood level: It is only a tool to be wasted in the pursuit of their higher goal. What seems stupid in our shoes is something they just feel compelled to do. |
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Damia
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Post by Damia on Nov 5, 2009 7:07:41 GMT -8
Interesting thoughts I will give you. But as it seems you are heavily weighted in favor of Nightwatch, I shall perhaps give the splinters a bit of time.
You say they serve no purpose, or are merely "drug dealers". Now I might agree that they do help those who want to hide their bad deeds. Though usually such deeds are always known to those who listen. But I disagree they serve no purpose. For think of it this way, for every good in a world, there has to be bad. Ying and yang. What do you think is keeping the Nightwatch active now? Perhaps their helping activities. But frankly, and someone correct me if I am wrong, they seem to be more active now they have a "bad" guy to pursue.
As for the drug dealer comment, again I am not saying the Splinters are perfect and wonderful, but there are those who try to hide their deeds through employees which to me is more dishonest then those who go up front and pay for such services. At least they are willing to risk that gossip will get (and please remember this is RBC where much can be learned through those vines) out there and mark them.
And let be frank in this next paragraph. You say by Nightwatches own code they must watch over those who are clanless, or those in a clan who step into the realm of making trouble not related to clan actions.
To the first of this, I once more disagree. For I myself am clanless and let I have never met a night watch member trying to help or watch over my actions. Nor would I welcome this. For I believe I am responsible for my own actions, and if some night watch member tried to tell me what I could and could not do, they would rapidly find themselves with a polite note telling them to not be nosy. As well you provide no proof that they have done such actions. So then tell me this, you accuse the splinters of being false..and yet by not following their own code, are not the Nightwatch being false to their own ideals?
To the second part of that, for those in a clan stepping into issues that aren't related to a clan. I can tell you one thing, having been a clan leader, second in command, and general member, that clan leaders usually decide what falls into their realm of watchfulness on their own members. And once more, I have heard of no nightwatch member going to any clan leader to talk to them about their members who are stepping outside proper bounds. Nor once again do you give proof of this. Though I would love be a fly on the wall and watch someone go to any of the clan leaders in this city and tell them that their members are under the nightwatch jurisdiction, and the clan leader need not bother.
Frankly while the ideals sound good sir, you aren't presenting any proof of them following any of these except them giving coins to those. Which while helpful do not follow any of the codes you have listed. So before you start making comments on the differences between such groups, perhaps you should have perhaps better examples?
And forgive the tangent of breaking down. Yet I find it amusing your all to willing to call splinters liars, drug dealers and nothing more then brainless idiots who don't follow their codes. When you show no proof that nightwatch obeys their own ideals and codes.
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Post by coolhandluke on Nov 5, 2009 10:06:14 GMT -8
I agree with Damia. The things people call good and evil aren't so different in the end. Take the CIA/DEA for example trying to 'wipe' out drug trafficking in the US. Do you really think they want it to stop? Hells no, that's how they get their pay check. And that's how they keep the social order the way they like it.
A drug lord in a country who's government the US does not like ships massive amounts of cocaine into the states. Bosses and distributers here chop it and keep it moving, generally ending up in poor minority neighborhoods causing what looks like self-inflicted suppression/oppression and strife in the community as a whole. When a minority starts making too much money, or they just want to fuck with someone on the street trying to eat, the police and the DEA do their little bullshit busts in the name of a so-called war on drugs.
The government gets these drugs and do you really think they burn/destroy them all? Hell no, they're sold through underground connections right back to the drug lords who destabilize US-termed 'unfriendly' or 'dangerous' governments to serve the US's wants. The war on drugs is in reality a 2 pronged attack. On one side helping to undermine rival governments, and the other prong keeping the social standing in the states themselves the way the establishment wants. Keeping wealth in 'it's proper place' so that the piggies keep getting richer while oppressing 'dangerous' minorities and preventing social uprising all in the name of the stat-quo.
But you turn on the news and see pictures of minority so-called 'drug dealers' in connection with violent crime. Keeping the masses idea of who the good and bad guys are in order.
So which side are the good guys again? You tell me it's really that simple. Good and evil feed off of each other, and in the end the lines are so blurred a logical mind finds it hard to believe they are even two separate entities.
I don't know much if anything about the nightwatch or the splinters. But from what I see he splinters are damn honest about what they do and why. No hiding behind the vague ideal of 'justice', whatever that means...
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Post by black_dragonet on Nov 5, 2009 12:59:02 GMT -8
As I stated before, and bug had the kindness to quote, it is logical that these two groups oppose.
As for taking sides, I am somewhat torn...
In terms of group, the choosing is clear, since the splinters stand for what I despise most.
Their secrecy allows the truth to remain obscured, and the cowards to jubilate, their wrongdoings remaining hidden.
Hiring the splinters is the most dishonourable thing I can think of.
Yet, in this, the splinters are the tool, not the will or the move that causes the killing.
They provide a service I loathe, yet they are rather honourable in the way they do it.
I hate their cause, but I respect the way they fight for it.
The nightwatch on the other hand stands for what I like: honour, keeping the streets clean of notorious scumbags, making sure some important things are respected, and helping the younglings find their way in the city.
What makes me wince sometimes though, is the way they fight for their cause, and the accomodations they sometimes take with what they profess. I have never been able to stand the people doing other than what they preach.
I have never lied. Not once.
Nightwatch should never hit someone in the graveyard, not in the adjacent area, I feel.
I would be glad if the Splinters of Dusk disappeared, when I would be very sorry if the Nightwatch disappeared.
Yet.
There are a lot of vampires in the Splinters I have come to like, because they really are true to what they say, they live their own code, and I respect that. I believe Nightwatch should fight their war in a different way.
Losing my blood while defending a cause I believe in, such as my clan's honour is something that would give me pride.
Losing their blood while fighting and executing their contract make the Splinters proud
Losing their blood while fighting the Splinters should make the Nightwatch constables proud, not make them complain.
In terms of fight, it has always been clear that weapons cause more damage in blood then they cost in terms of necro, thus weapons spent on Splinters is not wasted. It must be wisely used though.
Using the weaponry as a trickle is useless, for it will not impair the ability of the splinters to execture their contracts, only slow them. So Nightwatch should save their weapons and keep the splinters, all or most of them, at zero during the longest time they can, rather than keep a few splinters at zero.
More important, they all should remain cooler and more businesslike. You don't have to state why you are attacking, we understand. Then don't let anyone do anything that can be used against you, such as attacking in the Graveyard.
Just.
Do.
Not.
I shall hope you win, while I bow to all the nice people I know in the splinters.
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Liander
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Post by Liander on Nov 5, 2009 13:18:54 GMT -8
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PoisonIvy
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Post by PoisonIvy on Nov 5, 2009 13:59:12 GMT -8
dragonet, I think I like you.
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Mephistophlese Sinclair
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Post by Mephistophlese Sinclair on Nov 6, 2009 7:49:14 GMT -8
I would have to agree with black_dragonet in how he described the goals and actions of both groups. I admire the goals of the NW, but their ability to actually follow through appears a bit lacking. If Ventrue were to attack a pire who was clanless, I doubt that the NW would be able to deter us from our sovereign right to do so. All that the NW can do in reality is help and assist lost fledglings in the city. They can point them in the direction of where to meet other pires who do have an understanding in the city and perhaps they can give coins to those who are stranded at the transits. As far as defending the graveyard... I have my doubts. All in all those are admirable goals. Just not all of them are practical is what I'm saying. The SoD are enablers. They enable a pire to hide behind secrecy and keep their blood whilst the victim has very little recourse. The victim can inquire about who hired the SoD, but the odds are stacked against them from ever confirming their suspicions. If I were diabolical enough, I could observe a feud in the city and then send one of my employees to hire the splinters to attack the head of one side or the other. And if the SoD holds true to their codex, then I, the uninvolved bystander could sit back and watch as two clans make accusations against the other and escalating the situation. It is actually plausible that one could use the SoD to get rival factions to attack and weaken each other with a senseless war. This in my opinion is reason enough to have such disdain for the SoD. However, it is the fact that the SoD honors their codex of secrecy that makes their service so insidious. Policing the city is idealistic and sweetly naive. The Splinters serve a purpose. You can hate the message but hating the messenger is the height of stupidity. The question is, who's purpose? Is it not actually conceivable the a first tier clan has been using the SoD for years to create conflict amongst the other second tier clans just to keep themselves above the fray? To any first tier clans. Don't get me wrong. I honestly do not believe that to be the case. But if I were to belive that, there would be NOTHING that any first tier clan could do to prove me wrong. (That is if the SoD honors their codex of secrecy.) And just the accusation alone could tarnish a reputation that has taken years of hard work and dedication to achieve. |
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Post by Bug Merovingian on Nov 7, 2009 14:11:36 GMT -8
Well now, there has been some very interesting thoughts placed in here. My views on this are just that, my views. What I have set forth is mostly based upon some fact and my interpretation and personal experience. I was not attempting to personally attack any specific member of either group. On the contrary, as Dragonet has said, there are some in the Splinters that he likes and I am the same. I have held a few conversations with one in particular in SoD and this person garnered a decent amount of personal respect from me in how they acted while we spoke. I also know of a few within the NW that I feel would do the NW a better service by leaving it. I spoke on how I saw each group fitting into the greater scheme of things in the city. SoD, I feel does a disservice to the city by providing what services they do that I know of. Yet, there are people in that group that I do have some respect for, even if I feel they are misguided. NW I feel does a service deemed good and especially to those who are newer to the city. Yet there are people in the NW that make me cringe each time they speak. Some of these people are with a group who's concept I believe whole heartedly in, and yet I would happily kill them with little provocation. When I quoted Poison Ivy and Andre, it was not a personal attack on thier moral character, but I used that as an indicator of a portion of why I view SoD as I do. Interesting thoughts I will give you. But as it seems you are heavily weighted in favor of Nightwatch, I shall perhaps give the splinters a bit of time.
1)You say they serve no purpose, or are merely "drug dealers". Now I might agree that they do help those who want to hide their bad deeds. Though usually such deeds are always known to those who listen. But I disagree they serve no purpose. For think of it this way, for every good in a world, there has to be bad. Ying and yang. What do you think is keeping the Nightwatch active now? Perhaps their helping activities. But frankly, and someone correct me if I am wrong, they seem to be more active now they have a "bad" guy to pursue.
2)As for the drug dealer comment, again I am not saying the Splinters are perfect and wonderful, but there are those who try to hide their deeds through employees which to me is more dishonest then those who go up front and pay for such services. At least they are willing to risk that gossip will get (and please remember this is RBC where much can be learned through those vines) out there and mark them.
3)And let be frank in this next paragraph. You say by Nightwatches own code they must watch over those who are clanless, or those in a clan who step into the realm of making trouble not related to clan actions.
To the first of this, I once more disagree. For I myself am clanless and let I have never met a night watch member trying to help or watch over my actions. Nor would I welcome this. For I believe I am responsible for my own actions, and if some night watch member tried to tell me what I could and could not do, they would rapidly find themselves with a polite note telling them to not be nosy. As well you provide no proof that they have done such actions. So then tell me this, you accuse the splinters of being false..and yet by not following their own code, are not the Nightwatch being false to their own ideals?
To the second part of that, for those in a clan stepping into issues that aren't related to a clan. I can tell you one thing, having been a clan leader, second in command, and general member, that clan leaders usually decide what falls into their realm of watchfulness on their own members. And once more, I have heard of no nightwatch member going to any clan leader to talk to them about their members who are stepping outside proper bounds. Nor once again do you give proof of this. Though I would love be a fly on the wall and watch someone go to any of the clan leaders in this city and tell them that their members are under the nightwatch jurisdiction, and the clan leader need not bother.
Damia, I have taken the liberty of numbering the points I will address in your quote. 1) When I said that I viewed SoD as the drug dealers of the city, it was a comparative statement. A way to drive a point, nothing more. And too, while it is true the NW is more active publicly recently they have never really disappeared and should SoD end their own activities I am certain the NW will remain as they have been. 2) I can not agree more that the usage of employees to harm another is a disgusting thing. But, I fail to see how there is that great a difference between using employees to attack, or using SoD. To me they both allow one to attempt to hide from personal accountability. The lack of accountability from using either “tactic” to cause another harm is the most crass and craven thing I can think of. Some people simply do not want to have to deal with the retributions from their own actions, and this is one of my greatest issues with SoD as a whole. People are allowed to hide, much like a human druggy would from their reality. This is why I used that analogy. It’s a false sense of accomplishment, and the illusion of the temporary gratification from this will cause nothing but harm in the long run. 3) “Code 103: The NightWatch's duties include the policing of those individual vampires who are clanless, and those who are members of a clan, but who's issue falls outside the realm of a "clan-war".” This is what I quoted from the NW. I have spoken with smitsmit on this, and this particular code need not have been specifically defined due to the Night Watch Charter, which has been in place since ‘03 and I quote the Charter here: This does not insinuate they would approach a clan leader and begin to question that clan’s membership nor their activities. Should any from the NW approach me about one of my members, they would have to have a very good reason for me to not send them packing with some harsh words following them. My people follow me and have given me what power I have because they wanted me, and not for another entity to be “policing them” so to speak. The NW does not involved itself in anything that is strictly clan business. Now as to the individual, they protect the individual who would not normally have the protection of a large family or clan. This is the duty of the NW as seen from their charter. The word “policing” I do believe is misleading. I do not take it to mean that the NW hold themselves to be the ultimate form of justice, but rather that the NW polices the welfare of the individual, and would only do such for one who is clanned should the situation pertain to that which is outside of the realm of the clan. I may be wrong in this, but do not believe I am. Now you have stated a few times that I have provided no proof. I do remind you that this is nothing more than my opinion. Luke I did not say that SoD was dishonest about what they do. On the contrary it is well known and publicized what they do, and the same can be said of the NW. The vague ideal of justice that you speak of is not so vague as you may think. It is rather defined in the NW’s halls. Again I am forced to quote Dragonet’s words as they set forth how I feel about the whole situation. As for taking sides, I am somewhat torn... In terms of group, the choosing is clear, since the splinters stand for what I despise most. Their secrecy allows the truth to remain obscured, and the cowards to jubilate, their wrongdoings remaining hidden. Hiring the splinters is the most dishonourable thing I can think of. Yet, in this, the splinters are the tool, not the will or the move that causes the killing. They provide a service I loathe, yet they are rather honourable in the way they do it. The nightwatch on the other hand stands for what I like: honour, keeping the streets clean of notorious scumbags, making sure some important things are respected, and helping the younglings find their way in the city. What makes me wince sometimes though, is the way they fight for their cause, and the accomodations they sometimes take with what they profess. I have never been able to stand the people doing other than what they preach. It is the respective groups themselves in this situation that I speak of, and not of the separate individuals. Albeit there are individuals involved from both sides that I believe we could do with less of. Now, speaking of individuals. I fail to see the reason people would want to harm the NW for attacking SoD. The NW is doing it’s job. People say it’s foolish to attack SoD for working a contract, and I agree. This is the difference that I fail to see. The NW will not stop, just as SoD would not, yet people are attacking the NW anyway. It’s moronic in my estimation. |
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Damia
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Post by Damia on Nov 7, 2009 20:27:59 GMT -8
On the last point you are quite right and forgive me if I sounded harsh in my statements. I merely meant to be a perhaps devils advocate as it is called. For you stated those codes and yet I saw no proof anywhere that the NW has done those things.
You say that the duty of NW, or one of them for as Jean pointed out in another area they actually have fulfilled the business of transit guard helping others. Is to defend those who do not have the larger family or clan to help.
You see perhaps this is why I was harsh. For I hear many that have spoken this over the years, claiming they will defend the young and weak, triumph over those bullies who pick on them. In the end, most all of these so called defenders have turned out to be egomaniacs who would rather use the young as cannon fodder instead of actually defending them. Most notably as I have said before AA is the classic example. To me if you are are going to say such things you must then prove this. Because its easy for many to say one thing and do another. Now by no means am I comparing say Smit to AA. Since he doesn't seem as dangerous in his beliefs as that one was. But I do find it interesting that in one area he says that others must bring the cases to him of such horrid acts going on. Yet ..if this is his duty, then why do not the NW have someone perhaps looking around. For I was once a clan member, and I remember the days when younger members would tell me they did not speak of certain things that happened because they were afraid of the reaction or they simply did not know who to go to. For many of the defenseless, with no large clan or families, perhaps not even on this paper or others, would not know who to go to. So then how can such codes really be followed if the clan claiming them is not even bothering to find these lost souls?
Now as to the splinters, it seems some took my words as fervent defense for them. Instead of the mere counterpoint to some of the views expressed. I do not say that they are perfect, nor will I. Though if I ever have a contract on myself, I will not bother to attack them. As the way I see it and have for many years, they are simply messengers for those too cowardly to show themselves. I tend to look at those hiring the splinters instead of laying the blame on them. For yes they provide a service that enables I suppose cowardly beings to hide. But even without them, I do not think you would see beautiful wonderful peace in this city. Instead you would see more employees being used or in some cases as I have seen, such beings using clans or families to hide behind. At least with Splinters while they do keep secret on their contracts, most find out soon enough who hired them. For such others can not keep their mouths shut long enough for the splinters to do the job and let the public forget. So most of these contracts, the true coward is usually killed or made a fool of in some way.
Now does this mean Nightwatch is bad for attacking them, or others for believing that splinters are evil? No. I think all are entitled to their opinion. So those attacking the NW now or at least Smit, seem to be doing it for attention.
As for Dragonets words, he is quite wise in what he says. I am simply the more cynical one here. For while NW stands for such "good" causes, I do not see this being done.
As I believe Liander said in another area, where were they when he was attacking a young vampiress for no real reason? Or what about any of the other many zeroings of younger vamps that get posted on this newspaper? Perhaps as the NW becomes more active they will actually seek to hold to more of the customs they claim to keep.
Thank you though for breaking my very long winded statements down and replying. That must have taken a good hour..though I do enjoy a good conversation. *Smiles*
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Mephistophlese Sinclair
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Post by Mephistophlese Sinclair on Nov 8, 2009 0:16:10 GMT -8
On the last point you are quite right and forgive me if I sounded harsh in my statements. I merely meant to be a perhaps devils advocate as it is called. For you stated those codes and yet I saw no proof anywhere that the NW has done those things.
You say that the duty of NW, or one of them for as Jean pointed out in another area they actually have fulfilled the business of transit guard helping others. Is to defend those who do not have the larger family or clan to help.
You see perhaps this is why I was harsh. For I hear many that have spoken this over the years, claiming they will defend the young and weak, triumph over those bullies who pick on them. In the end, most all of these so called defenders have turned out to be egomaniacs who would rather use the young as cannon fodder instead of actually defending them. Most notably as I have said before AA is the classic example. To me if you are are going to say such things you must then prove this. Because its easy for many to say one thing and do another. Now by no means am I comparing say Smit to AA. Since he doesn't seem as dangerous in his beliefs as that one was. But I do find it interesting that in one area he says that others must bring the cases to him of such horrid acts going on. Yet ..if this is his duty, then why do not the NW have someone perhaps looking around. For I was once a clan member, and I remember the days when younger members would tell me they did not speak of certain things that happened because they were afraid of the reaction or they simply did not know who to go to. For many of the defenseless, with no large clan or families, perhaps not even on this paper or others, would not know who to go to. So then how can such codes really be followed if the clan claiming them is not even bothering to find these lost souls?
Now as to the splinters, it seems some took my words as fervent defense for them. Instead of the mere counterpoint to some of the views expressed. I do not say that they are perfect, nor will I. Though if I ever have a contract on myself, I will not bother to attack them. As the way I see it and have for many years, they are simply messengers for those too cowardly to show themselves. I tend to look at those hiring the splinters instead of laying the blame on them. For yes they provide a service that enables I suppose cowardly beings to hide. But even without them, I do not think you would see beautiful wonderful peace in this city. Instead you would see more employees being used or in some cases as I have seen, such beings using clans or families to hide behind. At least with Splinters while they do keep secret on their contracts, most find out soon enough who hired them. For such others can not keep their mouths shut long enough for the splinters to do the job and let the public forget. So most of these contracts, the true coward is usually killed or made a fool of in some way.
Now does this mean Nightwatch is bad for attacking them, or others for believing that splinters are evil? No. I think all are entitled to their opinion. So those attacking the NW now or at least Smit, seem to be doing it for attention.
As for Dragonets words, he is quite wise in what he says. I am simply the more cynical one here. For while NW stands for such "good" causes, I do not see this being done.
As I believe Liander said in another area, where were they when he was attacking a young vampiress for no real reason? Or what about any of the other many zeroings of younger vamps that get posted on this newspaper? Perhaps as the NW becomes more active they will actually seek to hold to more of the customs they claim to keep.
Thank you though for breaking my very long winded statements down and replying. That must have taken a good hour..though I do enjoy a good conversation. *Smiles* TLDR |
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Post by ladypeacek on Nov 8, 2009 9:05:46 GMT -8
Having been a member of splinters allow me the chance to better explain the idea of splinters.
Splinters idea of blood not equaling power is just that- and in taking contracts are hoping to serve both the contractor and the one it is served on. Here is how that works with an example.
Lets say someone decides to take a contract on Seyda (since she reacted perfectly to the situation when a contract was taken on her- its a great example)...that person may be hiding behind splinters to save their own blood, to avoid negative city publicity, or because clan rules disallowed them to act on an issue...whatever.
Take every drop of Seyda's blood- how many of you that love and respect Seyda will stop now that she is at 0? How does that change her in your eyes? I wager the answer is that it makes no difference at all. Nothing about Seyda, or where she stands among the city has changed one bit, whether she has 0 blood, or 100k pints of blood.
The hope is that the contractor will have learned this valuable lesson as well. They sat there and watched as every pint was drained...and it changed nothing. Seyda was still the same Seyda. So maybe in the future this person can see that their blood does not hold power over who they are...unless they ALLOW it to- its all in ones mind.
There are those who will never understand that because they are so focused on their blood being the most important thing and feel as if they 'lose' they are somehow looked at differently...but that only happens when you behave differently because of the loss. If you throw a fit, or rage about the loss- YOU have allowed it to change who you are and how people see you, not the loss of blood.
Now the nightwatch- and what I see in this situation.
I don't have an issue with the way they began- helping new or lost vampires find a direction. However, they are choosing to enforce some sort of law on the city. Frankly, even if most clans got involved it would be a mess. The beauty of our kind- is that we can choose to be or do whatever we want to do in whatever way we choose to do it.
But past that- in order to be FULLY competent in this area- they can not be so defensive of their own wants, needs and blood. They must put those they seek to defend and help before themselves lest they waste every resource they have and none are left to do the good they preach wanting to do. They have failed in this by wasting what they had on the splinters to defend one of their members- rather than the other many that have been contracted upon. Had they done this long before for another it would have been different, but they did not. They waited until it was themselves under fire- leaving me to see that they are much more selfish than they believe themselves to be.
In the end, they have proven to be no different than the rest of us who do things at times for selfish reasons and self preservation or at least the preservation of our bloodlines and/or clans. I won't say that is a bad thing- only bad that they feel they are above it....when they clearly are not.
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Post by black_dragonet on Nov 9, 2009 15:28:21 GMT -8
There is one thing that has been bugging me...
Does that failing that can be found in many other vampires warrant an attack?
Liander asks them where they were when he was being attacked. NW has never said they were out to defend those acting foolishly, and Liander himself has acknowledged that prior to meeting you he DID ask foolishly.
Attacking someone for failing to defend them does not seem logical to me.
However, if NW were to see themselves as a policing force, then they should not follow any law they brought onto themselves. Police forces have always eneorced laws that they had not part bringing into place. They are a tool to ensure some rules are followed, but they are not the ones to decide what rule should be enforced.
There usually is some sort of voting or council assembly to do that.
NW will never manage to reach a goal that too many people don't want them to reach. The best thing to do would be to just let things cool off with the splinters, and keep doing what everyone agrees they are useful when they do.
Later, when they are more powerful, or when they have gathreed more allies, then they could and should try to have another go at the splinters. In the meantime, they can oppose to anyone being hurt by the splinters or rogue people that they could and chould have spoken up in their defence when they offered to give such protection.
Do less, do it better, and make sure noone takes any liberty with the honour code.
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Post by ladypeacek on Nov 9, 2009 16:12:46 GMT -8
I don't believe that failing is found in most of us, because while I said they are no different, we don't profess to be greater or the 'law'.
Does failing warrant attack? Maybe not, but there have been a great deal of outside conversation that has hit a boiling point for some. I personally wanted to see how far they would go in defending themselves, rather than saving for what they preach to be their intentions. Sure, it might not have been my place or job to test them in such a way, but I really had nothing else on the agenda for the evening and this issue has been of great importance to Liander. Who are we to judge what ideals and beliefs should or shouldn't be what another feels is important. He has his reasons.
The fact that they did not retaliate against hits as of yet tells me one of two things. 1- they don't have the resources to be fighting those who fight back (in which case they REALLY had no business poking splinters) or 2- They have finally caught on that their very LAST priority should be their own blood. I hope its the latter.
Now- as for Liander. One of the things that get most young vampires in trouble is their mouth or actions before they really know what the hell is going on. Liander isn't the first, nor will he be the last- it is the way of those new to this lifestyle. Some are young and timid, some are young and wild.
Sure, he may have done some things that were troublesome, but as NW has taken on the task of helping those young...this would still be their area of concern. No one says they had to fight against those that have chosen to attack them in order to help. I did no such thing for Liander nor for any other childer of mine that has found themselves in hot water. Just giving them a sanctuary, a place to start their growth with guidance and acceptance can go a long way.
Liander and I had numerous battles and arguements before I sired him and at the end of the very first one, I told Kaio I would sire him one day. There was no doubt in my mind that he belonged with me, even if I did not agree with some of his actions, I liked who he was and still do.
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Moirai
New Member
IGN: Moirai :: Actions speak louder than words
Posts: 409
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Post by Moirai on Nov 9, 2009 16:31:07 GMT -8
I think I'll hire the Splinters to defend themselves next time they're attacked.
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Spinner
New Member
Gehyra Dex
Posts: 74
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Post by Spinner on Nov 9, 2009 16:49:21 GMT -8
I know where I stand on the Splinter and NW issue.
And Moirai, they would have some fun with that.
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This is entirely wrong, I am afraid. For starters, it is widely stated that we do not make a profit on contracts - so how, then, are we to make money?
Actually, I find it logical.
