Shina
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Shiny Shina
IGN: Shina
Posts: 186
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Post by Shina on Jul 19, 2008 3:15:43 GMT -8
Going Lost in Shadow during a battle is to what some people consider apparent "strategy," seeing as they do it.
I find it cowardly and ridiculous that a vampire would hit someone and as soon as retaliation might be stronger than their own force, fall into Shadows to avoid being hit and zero'd for taking on more than they imagined they could.
What are your thoughts?
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Blade
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Death is the road to awe.[C01:FFFF00]
Posts: 1,044
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Post by Blade on Jul 19, 2008 18:43:43 GMT -8
Pussy way out of things.
;D
Love you Shina! >.>
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Mephistophlese Sinclair
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?True leadership must be for the benefit of the followers, not the enrichment of the leaders.?
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Post by Mephistophlese Sinclair on Jul 20, 2008 6:01:47 GMT -8
I think it depends on how long they stay in shadows. With Shadows 3 a vamp can drop into shadows quite quickly. If they go into shadows for a day or two, it's not an issue. However if they go into shadows for a month... Well that's a different story.
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Post by Mandolin on Jul 20, 2008 8:09:22 GMT -8
One can't expect a pire to stay out of Shadows for the whole of a battle, so some slipping in to them is a perfectly acceptable part of fighting.
I think the main problem is, as Shina stated, when a pire is staying in shadows and using them as sort of a cloaking device so that they can't be hit while fighting.
Consider this as a scenario....
Pire a does something to warrant a zeroing by pire b and his family. Pire b starts said zeroing and pire a, being frightened for his blood, goes to hide in his home. Pire b and family scroll pire a for hiding. Pire a hides more, but now comes out of his home and shadows only long enough to hit pire b and family before falling back into shadows.
Repeat for a few days, etc, etc....
Now the way I was taught to fight is that you rise to meet the challenge, even if you know you're going to lose in the end. Being in Shadows for days or weeks on end instead of fighting is not, in my mind, an honorable way to fight.
Personally I think it's a cowards way out.
I keep hearing members of the younger generations say that hiding in Shadows is the 'new' way to fight... get hit, hide, hit them, hide, hit them again, hide again. Many of them see nothing at all wrong with cowering in Shadows instead of standing up for your actions.
So to sum up my mini-ranty thing... I think purposely hiding in Shadows in the middle of a fighting situation is cowardly, lacks any honor, and strips that pire of their respect and any sort of standing they had previous to said Shadow hiding.
Maybe a little harsh? I don't think so... honor on the battlefield is paramount and to act in the way stated above shows a pire's true character, which is just shameful.
*steps off her soapbox and wanders out*
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Frozen Nova
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OOC: Mermaid. IGN: Frozen Nova[C01:CCFFFF]
Posts: 358
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Post by Frozen Nova on Jul 20, 2008 20:57:25 GMT -8
I think the only reason someone should go into shadows during battle is if they're still questing for powers that require blood or if another issue ultimately prevents them from moving.
The Shadow Realm is also not accessable through anything but "Mind Crushing."
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Elektra
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Obsession. Compulsion. Perfection.[C01:Grey]
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Post by Elektra on Jul 21, 2008 11:00:28 GMT -8
I think the only reason someone should go into shadows during battle is if they're still questing for powers that require blood or if another issue ultimately prevents them from moving. Those who are still questing should not be allowed to fight at all. That goes for anyone who's not fully powered, really... *taps her chin*
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Post by black_dragonet on Jul 21, 2008 13:58:20 GMT -8
I think the only reason someone should go into shadows during battle is if they're still questing for powers that require blood or if another issue ultimately prevents them from moving. The only acceptable reason to me is if the human has dragged the vampire away and prevented him from getting back to the city. Else... As someone said, you don't go to war if you're not fully powered and willing to let go of what you're doing.
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Frozen Nova
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OOC: Mermaid. IGN: Frozen Nova[C01:CCFFFF]
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Post by Frozen Nova on Jul 21, 2008 17:32:40 GMT -8
I think the only reason someone should go into shadows during battle is if they're still questing for powers that require blood or if another issue ultimately prevents them from moving. The only acceptable reason to me is if the human has dragged the vampire away and prevented him from getting back to the city. Else... As someone said, you don't go to war if you're not fully powered and willing to let go of what you're doing. The human thing's what I ment. And it's the vampire's choice whether or not to go into battle, even if someone says otherwise.
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Boomerangele
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Post by Boomerangele on Jul 21, 2008 19:14:48 GMT -8
I am not sure I completely agree here.
If you have attacked then you are obviously part of a war/battle/skirmish and should be accessible to continue whatever retribution is your due. Allowing yourself to stay in shadows when you are the aggressor is not acceptable. If you are an active part in a war then be active.
However, if you are not part of a war/battle/skirmish and are attacked, staying in shadows is the only defensive mechanism available in the City in which to protect yourself. In that case I see nothing wrong with taking a holiday and using shadows to deflect the attack. Let the aggressor(s) whine and moan about your actions and force them to use scrolls to kill you.
The fine line here is if your clan/family goes to war and you do not wish to participate because you: 1) are not fully powered, 2) are a student, or 3) you personally have no time for the prolonged responsibility of being available for such things. Too often I have seen such vampires killed just to get at sires or to annoy the clan. I suggest those vampires use shadows as well, because as I stated above - this City provides you absolutely no other option. The idea that one can sit out an event is lost on most of you, no matter what you profess here about being sympathetic to fledglings, questers or small childer. I disagree that it is a vampire's choice to go to war; it is often foisted upon them by circumstances.
And while I'm on this topic, please do not post in the papers or announce in halls how so and so is in shadows as if that makes you morally superior. It makes you petty and laughable. Seriously, stop doing that and looking stupid. As Meph points out, Shadows 3 can drop you into shadows quickly depending upon your energy (OOC:ap) While it is generally accepted that you fall into shadows in 24 hours; in reality, shadows is not time based, but energy based. Lower energy = faster shadows. I fall into shadows far less quickly than I used to. So it is possible you simply caught a pyre who just fell into shadows and it hasn't even been a full day since it occurred in which case your pronouncement makes you look like you don't understand how the City works.
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Post by Scythian Chornovyl on Jul 28, 2008 10:30:50 GMT -8
My opinion seems to differ from popular choice on some points, and rings true on others.
I agree with Boomerangele on using shadows if you are for no reason you can help hopelessly bullied, or if you're a student who isn't ready to get involved. But if that's your case, any verbal involvement flaming or defending any one side in my eyes would negate your neutrality and make you fair game.
There are also situations where I will use the shadows as tactic if need be. Criticize me if you will, all I will say is my tactic is to win. A strategic and temporary withdraw can do wonders if worked properly. And any fortifications I own I would also use to my full advantage.
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