For your consideration...

[Mandolin]

I was having a chat with a young piress the other day, and in the middle of our talk she brought up a subject I think I'd like a few other opinions on.

Said piress started out life in this city by visiting the ghettos and burbs. She eventually was sired into a family that encourages what the city in general would call 'bad behavior'. While in this family she hurt many people, went through several partners, and basically ruined any good reputation she had.

After a good while with this family, she was severed. since then she has found a new sire and has been working very, very, hard on fixing all the wrongs she had previously committed. Her overall demeanor has improved, as well as her behavior and how she treats others. I'd say it's a wonderful move in the right direction.

Unfortunately, the piress was speaking with her ex-grandsire the night she and I spoke. Her ex-grandsire told her that if she continued to visit the ghettos and burbs that she would never make anything of herself.

My opinion? That's a load of crap.

I can think of several pires who have started out in the ghettos and made themselves known in a positive way while still hanging out in those establishments. It's not always about where you hang out., but what you do with your time and how you treat others.

Case and point would be Kat and Coq.

First time I met those two they were both in the ghettos. I ended up zeroing Kat for being fantastically rude, and then showed her the city outside of the slums. She took off on her own after that, but still visited the ghettos and burbs because she had friends there. Coq found a line she wanted to be a part of and worked her way up from there to the point of co-founding one of the best papers in the city. She's also still seen in the ghettos and burbs a lot.

just because someone chooses to frequent a place that not everyone approves of does not mean they will never become anything. The places where you hang out are only one facet of who a person is. With a good family, personal drive, and a bit of curiosity, anyone has a decent chance of living up to their potential.

That's just my opinion though.

Any other thoughts?

[Lestat de Lioncourt]

I agree. Most people I talk with now still go into the suburbs to this day. I met my wife there, nearly four years ago. I spent my formative city years there, it's where I met by best friends and found my first clan.

I go there when I'm bored, not as often as many people. I do think, though, that it's become harder and harder for people to come out of the ghettos successfully like we did three or four years ago. Why? I don't know. It just seems like the youngsters of today never really 'make it' out.

[Mandolin]

I'll completely agree with you on that. Finding a pire with potential in those places has become a hard task. It's still doable though. But to say that just because someone hangs out in there negates all the other influences in their unlife is fairly silly. Clans and families can have a significant impact on a person.

[Adeline]

I started out in the ghettos.
LadyTachiban was there and she told me about powers. Then I had just been collecting coins and blood. Ms. Edgy also helped me figure out how to find the guilds and gave me a great map. Had it not been for the ghettos I wouldn't have met my first sire and family.

Now, I haven't done anything to really make a name for myself but I've come a long way from where I had thanks to the ghettos and burbs. If anything they help you with your unlife.

[Mr.`Vespertine]

What can anyone say? It's the place to be! I mean, maybe not for most people but, anyone can go there, at anytime and see what's going on. Adeline makes a good point about information there, one can learn pretty much anything about the city if they lurk long enough and know how to ask the right people nicely enough. Mandolin and Lestat make great points as well, it's all about how you conduct yourself, who you associate with and how you come off.

All that said the ghetto-burbs are the smallest place in the city, when it comes to what the city has to offer. There are so many dark alleyways and buildings, monuments and landmarks... I suppose everything is only as interesting as you make it, though.

[Do Not PM this Account.]

Jul 26, 2009 16:15:24 GMT -8 Mandolin said:

Coq found a line she wanted to be a part of and worked her way up from there to the point of co-founding one of the best papers in the city. She's also still seen in the ghettos and burbs a lot.

I sure do. To be honest, it's a valuable font of information for Bite, as well as family and clan matters. While not -all- of the people who hang out there are particularly considered 'valuable' in the eyes of our society, in fact not even most are, the fact is that they are remarkably valuable when you consider the way they sing like canaries. And here's why.

Nobody finds the ghettos or suburbs important or considers them a part of the City, really. If you go there, you must be scum, lowerclassed, or as is the occasional excuse, really really bored.

Because of this people don't watch what they say, or do, as much in the ghettos as they do in the news sources or in the Halls. And the fact of the matter is, if you don't think your company counts enough to govern yourself, you're going to release a whole hell of a lot more information into your surroundings than you would where you do.

It's bountiful for me, but it's not why I go there, either. I do go to watch, lurk, whatever, and collect my little notes before I skitter back to my hideyhole and assemble them. Other reasons why I go there?

It's where I came from. At this point in my life, I'm not really ashamed to admit it, considering. It proves to me that 'spawning' in the ghettos as a young pire does not kep you there, or hold you back. I have a fantastic line, a wonderful job that I not only am unwaveringly proud of but that I actually LOVE (and who can really claim that, I don't know), good friends, and often in the ghettos or suburbs I have a good time. I don't feel that attending these places somehow reverts me into a newpire and erases the insurmountable things that I have achieved.

Secondly, I meet interesting people there. Eh. I meet a lot of idiots and dilholes, too, but.. Most recently I came across a new citizen to our city named Fitzwilliam Regis Darcy. And while I normally don't interact with the newer citizens (OOC Read: low in blood and powers, as most vampires are actually roleplayed as being older than Coquette) because I find that they are childish, and lack experiences and motivation that I cannot relate to, Mr. Darcy is a surprising contrast to these people. Though maybe I am a rarity in a good vampire who's come from these places, and this can even be chalked up to opinion, I feel that there might be others like me out there and I'm pleased to say that Mr. Darcy is one of my very valuable friends, though one of my newest as well.

Thirdly, because of the reasons I stated earlier in that the popular belief is that the ghettos "don't count", I believe you see a bit of a person's natural state when they're not guarding their behavior. Maybe not entirely, not enough to judge a person in their whole, but you do start to bserve who they really are. I like that about a place, that it encourages open-ness even if it's with its bad publicity.

I think fourthly, and lastly, it is because visiting these places passes the time and I enjoy it. And I don't have to justify where I go and what I do to anyone. Though I did just explain it for the purpose of discussion, so maybe I actually did justify it without meaning to. Oh well. I have eternity to live, so to speak, though I imagine I'll choose death long before eternity is up. I have PLENTY of time to act like a pretentious asshole and see a building as below me. Until then, I want to have fun, and do what I enjoy. Period.

I'm quite pleased you thought of me. Free publicity for meeee and ghettospawn everywhere!

[Mandolin]

I give credit where credit is due, Coq. You decided you wanted more and made it happen. Ghetto or none, that should be acknowledged

[Promethius]

The Ghettos are seeping with fail and will drag you down if you so much as dare to enter them. [/sarcasm]

Superstitious fuckwads.

(Posting more in OOC)

[smitsmit]

I agree, ones reputation should be based on the way they act in the city, not where they visit. While I rarely visit them these days and have little interest in doing so, it is where I started out. It was in the ghettos where I gained the first information that helped me to better myself as a vampire. There are many who frequent the ghettos that could be considered a negative influence to a new vampire, and there are also many who can be highly beneficial. It's the choices you make, not the places you visit that defines you.

[black_dragonet]

I agree with most people, though probably not on the same things...
I've been there some, and all I got was offers for sex, free or not, which I declined.
Most people there are blabbering nonsense, and there are all kinds of beasts there, not only vampires.

I know for a fact though that there are some very valuable vampires who got out of these places. That they still visit the place is completely logical to me.
I see the place as some sort of sorting place, where the worthy vampires learn or not, and go see what's beyond the place, or not. Most people who went beyond the place prove themselves worthy.

Trying to bring reason and wisdom to ghetto vampires is demanding and quite testing patience, but it is also very rewarding to the one who finds a gem among the crappy people and turn it into a shiny diamond.
I am glad there be some wise vampires devoting time to trying to find sensible vampires in the Ghette and teaching them what there is beyond the place.

We are not the places we visit, we are what we bring to these places.

[Bambi]

On the flip side, I never knew the ghettos existed until like a year after getting turned. It wos like suddenly finding yerself locked in a candy store overnight.. so much choice and all of it free!

Of course, since then I 'ave an ASBO so I can't go to the main part and 'ave to stick wiv the rougher, unpoliced areas. Not that that's too bad.. just not as busy. Most time I go there and it's dead except fer the same ol' faces.

Anyway, me point is that it ain't where ya come from that dictates yer future, it's 'ow determined ya are to get wot ya want outta unlife. Personally, I'm a lazy fucker so yea I ain't ever gonna be some mighty warrior or great leader. Dude I ain't even gonna be anyone's childe or partner but fuck it ya know? If yer 'appy wiv yer lot then put-downs will be like water off a duck's back.

And this friggin' topic made me get that Ghetto Gospel song in me 'ead. Abel would be so proud of me

[Lyric]

Jul 27, 2009 2:16:49 GMT -8 Bambi said:

Anyway, me point is that it ain't where ya come from that dictates yer future, it's 'ow determined ya are to get wot ya want outta unlife. ... If yer 'appy wiv yer lot then put-downs will be like water off a duck's back.

Careful Bambi, if you keep speaking with wisdom and knowledge like this, your ruse of being 'just a pretty face' is going to melt away faster than snow in the desert heat.

[Master Dracula]

I remember my first time visiting the suburbs, ghettos didn't exist at the time. I was there, asking questions such as "Where do you get powers?" People were nice enough to show me the way to Andron's Crypt. But yeah, there's a lot of retards there nowadays. Expect...unusual PMs now and then if you decide to drop by. ;D

[rel]

Yet, on the flip side, a lot of times the ghettos are banned while you are training at certain schools within the city and for very good reason. How many have had student whine about being holy watered or treated like shit in that rancid place? They don't even have their first powers and they want to ... or for you to... take on so and so cause they were mean? *blinks* mmhmm

Getting students to stop going there is like getting teenagers to stop sneaking out, yet it isn't a clan's responsibility to defend a student if they start shit in the ghettos with the wrong vampire. Still, as your ward you get caught in the middle and it can be a mess...

I never went there until I was in a house. I'm sure there were other students who did, but I believed my chancellors when they said they'd kick you out. Students were hidden, they were sacred, they were the next generation to give power to the clan, and they were to be protected. *shrugs* Then I did go there, and got a headache, listened as a bad imitation with a crap ass outfit tried to pretend they were me.

They may be fun but I find it interesting how many may forget that it's not a free zone. All actions have consequences, it just depends on whether or not you are willing to receive them.

[seyda]

I think that if you continue to visit the ghetto and the suburbs and sit on your ass trying to get laid night after night in there rather than actually doing the things you need to do in order to make something of yourself, then that grandsire's statement could be true.