Sire/Childe Relationships

[Liander]

What defines the relationship between a sire and a childe? Some say love, others say loyalty, and there are those who don't even value the relationship. I've had a total of six sires in the two years that I've been a vampire, and my relationship with them each was unique and life changing.

My original sire was an extremely seductive woman. With looks that could kill, I was enthralled from the moment I laid eyes on her. In the end, I ended up begging to be turned. My relationship with her was.... complicated, to say the least. Though she didn't teach me many things in the ways of the city, she taught me a valuable lesson... Those closest to you can be your greatest enemies when given the right situation. Young and ignorant, I fell in love with her. She claimed to return the feelings, and our closeness grew. To my dismay, she sired a young man not long after, and "bonded" with him, as well. Before there was anything I could do about it, she up and left the city, abandoning me and having taught me virtually nothing I could use to further myself.

I was approached by another woman not long after, and she sought to sire me. I eagerly agreed. This woman was more even more beautiful than my first sire, and having not learned my lesson the first time around, my feelings for her developed beyond what a childe should ever feel for his sire. Fortunately, this time the feelings were not reciprocated, as she had a partner-bound. Unable to love her, I was instead utterly loyal to her, and in return, she showed me the love a real sire should. The same could not be said for her partner-bound, who loathed me so deeply that it still sends chills down my spine to think of it. Why, I will never know, as I had never told him, nor my sire, about my feelings. In fact, I had many other lovers during my time under her. Though she was loving, she was no better than my first sire in teaching me the ways of the city.

Then, one day, I was pulled into a conference with some of my bloodline. Unbeknowst to me at the time, I had been allowed there because my sire was an Elder of the bloodline. Unfortuantely, I had no idea what that meant. The conference was a discussion of war. Ironically, they were preparing for war against the bloodline of my original sire. Terms were used that I had never before heard. Talks of scrolling, holy water, and "live fighting." One thing was clear to me, though. One of their targets was my lover at the time, as she was an Elder of her bloodline, as well. It was a typical Romeo and Juliet situation, if you will. I, ignorant in the intracies of the politcs between clans and bloodlines, did the only thing I knew to do. I warned my lover. In hindsight, common sense should have told me it was a bad idea, but I wouldn't have done things any differently.

My sire found out. I was brought before a Council of sorts immediately to decide my punishments. The Council composed of my sire, her partner-bound, and the Matriarch of the bloodline. I apologized for my actions to the Matriarch, yet told her I would willingly accept whatever punishment she deemed fit. That wasn't enough for my sire's companion, though. He proceeded to taunt me, yell at me, and demand a severance and yet another term I had never heard before... A "zeroing." Not knowing any better, I retaliated verbally. For every one of his comments, I struck back as best I could. I was severed minutes later, and I stormed out having threatened to kill them all, yet not even knowing how it was I could accomplish that task.

In my rage, I was desperate to leave those memories behind and start anew. I met yet another woman, as gorgeous and seductive as my last two sires. Long before she sired me, I lusted for her. After she had, my lust grew to be too much for her, and she understandably severed me.

One would have thought I had learned my lesson by now, but no. I sired under one of my former lovers, the woman I had warned would be a target during my time under my second sire. She had a partner-bound now, a man I had long despised. Those feelings were returned eagerly by him, as he knew of my past with this sire. Strife and conflict riddled this period of my life, and I ended up seeking training in ways of the city from other sources. Things eventually reached a boiling point, and the man kept me at zero for weeks on end, with my sire refusing to sever me, until at last, I picked up my first holy water, having found one in the streets, and struck back against him. I was severed not long after.

Had I learned that I needed to be more careful with who I chose as a sire? No. I crossed paths with a woman, and developed feelings for her. In return, I was granted a brief dalliance between her and her current partner-bound. Soon after, I sired under her. A few weeks later, she and her partner-bound severed. I was almost too eager to sever from her as a childe, and bind to her as a partner. Needless to say, it didn't last long.

My fifth sire was, finally, a male. I had at last learned my lesson, and wanted to make sure nothing could ever happen between myself and my sire. He was a good man, wise in his own, weird way. Yet he drifted from the city, as my original sire had. I requested my severance from him, and it was granted.

I remained sireless for a time, wanting to take a break and find exactly the right person to guide me through my unlife. It was during this period of my life that I was a Midnight, which lead to me to cross paths with Kaio, the Ferrymen, and inevitably, ladypeacek.

For weeks after having met her, I begged ladypeacek to sire me. When I left the Midnights, she did. It is now that I believe I have found the right woman to be my sire. I idolize her with a passion that I don't think she truly comprehends, and I am completely and utterly loyal to her. Her word is my law, and if she ever told me to do anything, I would do it without hesitation. In return, she has taught me much, and guides me when I am in need of her.

Six sires, and I am just now beginning to stand on my own two feet. Each relationship was different, and invariably hard to define. So, these are the questions I pose to you all. What defines you as a childe? What defines your sire as your sire? Is it that we all seek different things in those we trust to guide us, or are certain 'pires just gifted with the ability to lead us? Share your thoughts, friends. Tell me your stories, allow me to learn from your experiences, and do the same from mine.

[Damia]

Before I seek to answer your questions, I feel the need to point out something that perhaps is only obvious to those listening to your story and not closely involved in such relationships.

You say you have had six different sire relationships, and yet I see four that entirely too much the same. You wanted a lover, or someone to love you but mistook that for a sire it seems in your first four relationships.

Though if I am wrong, I will apologize, but it seems as if you have only truly held two different type of sire relationships. Lovers and Guides. And forgive my nit picking, but I felt the need to clarify that one point before I answered your question, as you seem to want understand your bonds through the experience of others.

As for your questions.

What defines you as a childe?

There are many answers to this, and you will surely hear different explanations for why one feels like a childe to others. For myself, it is respect and love. For my first sire, she taught me how to be a vampire, teaching me what trust, respect, and loyalty truly meant as well as the ways of this city. So how could I not give her all of those things, she had already offered me. To this day I owe her a debt greater then any I can think of. For I see how some have turned out from other sires, and know I am grateful for her wisdom. For my current sire, well she did not teach me these ideals, but she upheld them in such a way, no matter what cost to herself, that once again I found myself seeking her as a sire. For so few appreciate the fact that upholding what you most believe, can separate you from family, friends and loved ones. Especially when done for a bare baby immortal, who you do not even know.

What defines your sire as your sire?

I suppose I have answered this in the above question. For me, each of my sires offered me wisdom, and helped me keep on a path I would be lost without. Even now as I am an older vampire, not as much in need of guidance, the bonds hold true to this day.

Is it that we all seek different things in those we trust to guide us, or are certain 'pires just gifted with the ability to lead us?

Yes and no. There are few I could name that I truly think are gifted to lead others into becoming older and wiser vampires. But some might not choose a few of these simply based on perceptions. I think tis the path the childe seeks that defines the sire. For say you are trying to find someone to love, but in seeking this love, you confuse a lovers touch for a guiding sires hand. So instead of perhaps choosing the sire who might teach you, you go for the more attractive option. That is the choice, so then that sire became defined by your confusion and not by perhaps what you truly needed. Even as in the human world, all things here are defined by choices. Being immortal simply gives you a longer amount of time to make said choices, instead of rushing into a situation that might not be good for you. But as unlearned baby vampires, many forget that being immortal, means a long memory for those who will notice your choices and judge you by them.

Now I will stop bleeding the eyes of those who wish to reply and leave it at that. But I do hope I have helped in some way to answer your questions.

[Mr.`Vespertine]

Don't even get me started on mine.

[Liander]

Nov 30, 2009 20:41:47 GMT -8 Damia said:

Before I seek to answer your questions, I feel the need to point out something that perhaps is only obvious to those listening to your story and not closely involved in such relationships.

You say you have had six different sire relationships, and yet I see four that entirely too much the same. You wanted a lover, or someone to love you but mistook that for a sire it seems in your first four relationships.

Though if I am wrong, I will apologize, but it seems as if you have only truly held two different type of sire relationships. Lovers and Guides. And forgive my nit picking, but I felt the need to clarify that one point before I answered your question, as you seem to want understand your bonds through the experience of others.

Actually, I pointed out that I had not learned my lesson in picking lovers as sire until much later in my unlife. I recognize this, and try to learn from it.

With my original sire, I learned not to trust easily.
With my second, I learned that love only goes so far.
With the third, I learned to not act on my emotions.
With the fourth, the lesson of the third was pounded all too well into my brain.
With the fifth, I learned that I needed to take time in choosing those who would be related to me, and to take care that they never drifted far.
With the sixth and final sire, I found happiness.

Each one was unique in that they taught me different things, though perhaps not what they intended to do upon siring me.

I thank you for sharing your thoughts, though.

[Idony]

Damia mentioned above that she only noticed two types of sires in Liander's experience, namely lovers and guides. While I agree with her that there doesn't seem to be that much difference in the list of six, I have to ask, as a Freudian, are there any other types of sires? Yes, there are the "mumsy" types, but that too is a form of lover (Oedipus, anyone?). There are the tormentors, I suppose, that keep their childer as a sort of slave or plaything, because the poor things can't sever or don't know how to. I've never even met any, though it would be interesting to talk to such a free individual.
I suppose there's also the symbolist sires that just turned the vampire and left... And the childe doesn't sever out of a weird sense of loyalty, or habit. I've never understood those though.

In any case, all the sires I've had, I chose because I felt they had something to teach me, my first sire notwithstanding (I chose him because he offered a home at a time when I wanted to get as far away from my old one; and what further place than death?).
The second was a convenience, but she taught me a great deal too, more or less intentionally.
Even my first sire taught me things, such as a loathing of large bloodlines, of politics, of fighting... Yeah, he was no fun, and I've pretty much cast away most of what he's taught me (including the battle cloak he had me wear).
My third and current sire has taught me less than any of my previous ones, likely because by the time he sired me I was full fledged, my 'vampiric infantiliy' over (we do hope). Indeed, what I learnt from him I learnt more by observation. Still, I can tell he hasn't taught me half of what he could've, and that's probably why I haven't severed. When I stop seeing the sire as a rich source of learning and have nothing further to gain, I go away.

That is, basically, what I want in a sire. Affection could be a bonus, but I don't really care for that above basic politeness. A mentor is how I see a sire as, or how sires should be. The 'lover' approach, as exemplified by Liander, has too many ways in which it can go wrong.
A 'tormentor' would be fun, though I sadly think I'm a little too old for that one.

[virgo_shelly]

A sire-childe relationship is not based on love for me. Nor for affection or teaching. I picked my first sire because I felt a bond with her before I even sired to her. She had been the first to accept me into the folds and the quickest to turn on me when I wanted to leave. The second was chosen for his charisma. He loved that I was impatient, bitchy, and loved to fight. Our departure was because he was no longer around for me to even talk to. However, before I picked my third I thought a lot about taking his partner as my sire instead. Now I am Andre's childe and there are days I regret this decision. It was decided to quickly when I look back on it, but I mostly think this because soon after we bound, he slept. Rotted. And now his mind is so far gone he is not the same person I sired to.

Each time I severed I did so myself. I figure if I want to sever then I should pay the cost. Part of the lesson I suppose.

I see a sire as a contract that can be broken. I came into this city with no sire. I don't change them often, because I dislike sire-hopping. If at any point my sire feels I am not fulfilling my side of the contract, then they should sever me. I the same for them.

[Beezil]

What defines you as a childe?
Hmm... well. I don't really know. I intend to be loyal, loving, giving, and honest to my sire. I wouldn't consider myself a servant, but more of a friend... a daughter, to put it in human terms. Lily is truly like a mother to me, and I am her child. I would never harm her, and gladly defend her if I were needed. I will always be there for her.


What defines your sire as your sire?
She is strong, compassionate, brutally honest... I chose her because of how blunt she was, but also because of how kind she has always been to me. When I was at my lowest, she reached out to me, picked me up and set me right. I couldn't picture myself with anyone else, after all these years.


Is it that we all seek different things in those we trust to guide us, or are certain 'pires just gifted with the ability to lead us?
I think a bit of both... but each of us I think needs different things. It goes both ways I think.

[CG Dragonfly]

My first sire was a friend I asked and he accepted me into his little family before he joined a larger bloodline. I learned from him how important it was to keep your promises, that honesty, trust, and respect are better than losing all you have because you can't do that. My second sire readily accepted me into his family after the fallout with my past sire. He showed me unconditional support and love. He's been my safe place to rant, take all problems and we agree about most things. If we disagree, it doesn't last very long and we're back being nutty.

Since I came into the city without a sire, I relied on what I gleaned from the relationship with my clan leader, Kryshar, on how I dealt with and viewed my childer. My first childe taught me about friendship being important as well as honesty between the sire and childe. Though she left me, I still feel a bond with her, no matter how tenuous it is since we no longer speak. The next who was to be my childe decided staying with a clan was more important, so she stayed put while my childe and I had to move on, lesson being that clan is first. My second childe, I learned that being there for each other with no conditions and that love can hold two together. Third childe brought me much joy, yet also with his choice to take me as sire took in the action of hitting my former first childe.

The next would be childe renewed the grief of losing my first childe, she agreed to the siring but changed her mind before it took place. It taught me that some bonds will never come about, even if you make the plans. My next childe was one who used to be part of my first clan and needed a place to go, so he came to me to grow once more from his place in the shadows. He was always an unusual sort and faded away a few months after the siring. The next one was another former clanmate who needed a start after being consumed in shadows, he was one of those strange souls that seem attracted to me. He faded away now into the shadows once more.

One of my newer childer that is a clanmate taught me to recognize more of where I miss at things, to notice my own imperfections as she mirrors me in most ways. The last childe I took in didn't last long and I learned that no matter how strong your bonds of love and support, they won't always last.


I'm not sure that answers your questions. >.>;

[Louvain]

I pick sires for their notoriety. Gotta keep my rep up.

[Irk]

Dec 1, 2009 12:16:40 GMT -8 Louvain said:

I pick sires for their notoriety. Gotta keep my rep up.

And I'm stuck with you. Damn.

[rel]

Dec 1, 2009 12:16:40 GMT -8 Louvain said:

I pick sires for their notoriety. Gotta keep my rep up.

*splurfs drink* holy hell that was funny.

I did find it interesting, as I always do in these types of 'forum discussionary topics' that the author is biased in their judgments, therefore it truly isn't a discussion but more a form of this is what a sire should be.

My example is your statement "my feelings for her developed beyond what a childe should ever feel for his sire." My question is why? Should ever? Why? If you drink your sire's blood is it not the most intimate thing we can ever do? I mean it is your SIRE'S BLOOD! The entire act is sensual.

There was a time in this fine city that vampires were sired truly for the head to create a coven of sorts, either male or female, and they turned vampires because...they could. Because this human fell in love with them, or that one had a nice house, or for no reason at all. Why? Again - because we could. It's old news by now, but I was turned in much the same way. Sire saw me singing with a trio at a nightclub, came back for weeks. Flirted. Weaved that glorious trap and I completely fell for it. I gave myself to her, gave her my life, my soul, only to find out that she was bound to another. So shit, here I am with two siblings (both also turned in the same way) and a sire who had no interest in training me other than bringing me into her clan. My clan was my family, my blood was just that...my blood. My loyalties were to those who were my sisters and brothers training along side me. It was, truly, a different time.

The bond that sires and childer have moved towards is a lot more familial. Great. Honestly, if that's what you're requiring that's great. But, what I love is that families can be fucked up too. That seems to be forgotten with the amount of vampires who sever when conflict arises. Siblings hate each other. The can TOTALLY HATE each other. I mean I loved my sister when alive, but jeez could she drive me crazy. Or your parents divorced and you get some asshat for a step father? It's endless. It's a family.

That aspect of a line is lost to me with the amount of hopping, and what truly makes me call bullshit on most of the sire/childe bonds that are SOOOOOOO tight one day and done the next.

Feh.

I'm not promoting schtoopin your sire. Hell, I'm not making any bias toward what IS or isn't a childe/sire relationship because I think...at the end of the eve...it's a personal intimate choice between two vampires and that relationship is unique to them.

[Bambi]

I don't know wot's wrong wiv me (and no this isn't an open question) but I never slept wiv any of me three sires.. or wanted to. I've not really learnt anyfing from them either. Actually I haven't learnt a fing from them except that it's easy to break a bind and some 'pires can never be satisfied wiv wot they 'ave.

I've never begged anyone to sire me or, as far as I remember, asked anyone to directly. Every time I've been severed it's been more of a "Leave now you ungrateful wretch and never again darken my door!" then a "Go free my precious childe!" kinda fing.

So wot defines me as a childe? I suppose I'm a shite one otherwise I'd 'ave another sire by now ;D Nah.. I dunno, stupidly loyal and stubborn and not one to listen to the rumours and gossip. I mean I'm not a fighter so no great warrior is going to want this leeching of 'em now are they? And I don't 'ave a reputation as a well liked and respected 'pire. Dude whoever gets drunk enough to sire me is going to be answering a lot of questions from their friends and family afterwards.

And wot defines me sire as me sire? See above.. me sire's don't stick around although I reckon three sires in three years ain't bad going.. and I wos under Tyger fer like a year or so which is staying power on both our parts.

Do we all seek different fings from a sire? Of course we do. One man's meat is another man's poison afterall. I've never picked me own sire so I guess I dunno wot I want from one. Just somebody who is around I suppose.

[black_dragonet]

Interesting...
I find you have issues separating your sex life from your bindings...

Sex invites itself in the relations you have with your sires, your partners, and your childes.
I think you mistake the love you need and the feeling that should exist between a sire and a childe.
I might be wrong, but I feel the reason why your relationship with Ladypeacek works, beyond her patience and fortitude, is because there's no sex involved with her.

The only real sire I had has been petit_prince, and the best thing he did to me was to send me away from him to the SIE school.
Then there was a short moment when I sired under my former partner, the shortlived Angel Mavros, but most of the time I've been in this city, I've been a master vampire.
What I may have lacked in sires, I found in a mentor, one of the greatest vampires of this city: Hesu.
Hesu is now gone, or mostly, but she directed me towards someone she trusted, someone worthy of my loyalty: ophelia.
Do I really need a sire when I have her as a clan leader?
I don't think so.