Battlecloaks and Torpor, oh my!

[Dr. Nash Fang]

Dear Dr. Fang:

Who in RavenBlack city makes the laws? Because the thing that bothers me is how some pires tell me that "You can't do that. It's against the rules." I say, who makes these rules and by what authority do they make them? Why must I a white vampire take torpor? I do not wear a battlecloak. And even if I did, I can still speak, shout and even focus my thoughts to send a telepathic message.

Why can't these torpor beLIEvers just stand by the conviction of the beLIEfs they espouse, and wear a cloak? Is it not hypacritical for them to preach about torpor when they are not even subject to the laws of torpor as established by Lord God RavenBlack?

Signed,

Proud to be white



Dear Proud:

Who makes the laws in RavenBlack City? A tricky question indeed. Some would say RavenBlack himself, some would say the High Council, some would say who ever wields the mightiest clan, and some would say that there are no laws in the City.

As to white vs. blue… the Battlecloak is a relatively recent addition by RavenBlack. In the beginning, there were only white vampires. Then RavenBlack created pink cloaks, and then blue ones. Battlecloaks were made available in the City by RavenBlack on January 24th, 2006 with a minor modification on January 28th. Thus, torpor existed well before Battlecloaks.

The High Council had met earlier, and suggested this as a way to stop the inevitable bickering over who would and would not follow the rules of torpor as established in RavenBlack City’s Halls. RavenBlack took their suggestions, and created the Battlecloak in a mystical manner that we do not completely understand. Unfortunately, flaws came to light as to how the Battlecloak functioned. So, quite a few vampires returned to the old ways; that they would enter torpor as agreed before Battlecloaks existed.

Now, as to your personal choice not to enter torpor, you are certainly entitled not to. However, the others are certainly entitled to continue to attack you, as part of the agreements made long ago amongst the city’s eldest.

Besides, one of the favorite activities of vampires in this city is to criticize everyone else’s actions and words.

These paragraphs gloss over many details and arguments that involve the Battlecloak. I am sure that some of my dear readers would love to assist in advising you why they do or do not chose to wear the Battlecloak.

Sincerely,

Dr. Nash Fang

((OOC – some of the mechanics involved can only be discussed from an OOC perspective, so take those discussions to the OOC section, please.))

[black_dragonet]

For month, and even years, I have heard people complaining and arguing (not to say whining) about torpor, torpor rules, and respect of torpor.
To me, there is one given regarding torpor. That is, in terms of choice.
Blue vamps don't have a choice: they have to rest, following the torpor rules that go along with the battlecloak.
White vamps have a choice. Either they decide to follow torpor, or they don't. Ravenblack himself set it so.

I read an opinion from Obsidian on that matter, and it gave me food for thought.
It said something like “With regard to torpor, choose a position and hold it.” I would add “State your position and stop bitching.”

Depending on whether the winning vampire (called attacker for the sake of simplicity below) or the losing one (called zeroed for the sake of simplicity below) follows torpor, there are four situations. They are logical, they’ll happen all the time, and please stop pretending to be surprised when that happens (and also stop bitching, thank you).


First case: attacker & zeroed don’t care about torpor.
Zeroed vamp has no reason whatsoever to stop talking, robbing or biting. Because he can.
Attacker has no reason whatsoever to stop attacking. Because he can.
Zeroed vamp has no reason whatsoever to complain and whine that he keeps being attacked if attacker does, because it’s just attacker’s choice.
Attacker has no reason whatsoever to reproach zeroed vamp to keep talking while he is zeroed, because it’s just zeroed vamp’s choice.
So, please refrain from covering the paper with junk, just because you can…

Second case: attacker cares about torpor, zeroed does not care.
Zeroed vamp has no reason whatsoever to stop talking or biting. Because he can.
Attacker will attack zeroed again if zeroed talks, until attacker is tired to do so. Because he can.
Zeroed vamp has no reason whatsoever to complain and whine that he keeps being attacked if attacker does, because it’s just attacker’s choice.
Attacker has no reason whatsoever to reproach zeroed vamp to keep talking while he is zeroed, because it’s just zeroed vamp’s choice. He might be pissed at his inability to shut zeroed’s mouth, but that’s the way it is. Welcome to reality! We’re not in the human’s world where you can call the police and have them settle your issues.

Third case: attacker does not care about torpor, zeroed cares about torpor.
Zeroed vamp will follow whatever rules of torpor he wishes to follow. Because he can.
Attacker will have no reason to further attack zeroed, though he can.
Neither Zeroed, nor attacker have any reasons to make any fuss, since zeroed probably won’t even talk and attacker has no reason to keep wasting weapons on an already zeroed target. (Ghosts suck, I mean humans can become ghosts, we cannot. We can only be pale as ghosts when low in blood, but only humans can mistake those two). If attacker were to hit zeroed again, then logic says that torpor starts again each time zeroed hits zero again. Whatever, no reason for drama here. Please shut up!

Fourth case, which seems to be the one that causes the most drama around.
Both follow torpor…
Zeroed vamp follows torpor, right?
Attacker follows torpor, hence will not attack zeroed, since he is in torpor, right?
Zeroed has no reason to be attacked again, since he’s following torpor, right?
Attacker has no reason to attack again, since he’s following torpor, right?
So why is it that so many complain? That's because everybody wants the other to follow their rules... There are many aspects to torpor rules
- Rob or not? for how long? when to start/stop?
- Talk or not? for how long? when to start/stop?
- Bite or not? for how long? when to start/stop?
- Fight or not? for how long? when to start/stop?
Depending on the answer given to these question, there will be situations where zeroed thinks he follows "torpor" as THE torpor rules when attacker thinks that one item of the rules is not followed, hence zeroed does NOT follow torpor although he says he does. Hence zeroed is a liar, hence is a naughty boy that should be spanked and humiliated publicly with whatever shit can be thrown at them. Zeroed answers that attacker is full of shit and that he attacks an innocent one (we might almost think zeroedis human, so weak and innocent they seems). You get the picture...
So the real issue is "what torpor rules do you get with?" is it not?

I'm no elder, and I hope some will enlighten me egarding this subject, but here is my opinion regarding torpor rules.
There were some rules existing before the name “torpor” was given to them. Whether they are good or not is not my point, whether there is one unified definition of what “torpor” means is not my point.
My point is that unless there is a torpor rules set that is agreed upon by all (which will happen after hell freezes over) the only working way to see it is to accept that the rules of the stronger always is the one to consider. In case there is a fight, reference torpor rules is that of the attacker… It’s simple and pragmatic as that. You may agree or disagree, this is the way I see it. Some call it bullying, some call it other way. I call it reality.


I mean, it is pissing me off when someone says someting and does another, but I'm a vampire, I can live with that. Attacker has zeroed zeroed, and made his point. Zeroed has been zeroed, and hence taken the beating. Whether some torpor rules are followed or not does not seem to me to be a real reason for another zeroing.
He talked? Zero him again for talking bad to you. Do you need a reason? respect of torpor seems a poor one to me... I'd gladly replace it with "you didn't respect your promise regarding what your behaviour would be after I zeroed you" or "you've been an ass again".

*bows*
Sorry if I have been long, but I have been wondering and pondering about this subject to the best of my abilities for quite a while. I know I lack many insights others will bring, but I have tried to understand, and to share the result of my poor thinking. Let's say it is worth a few cents...
I wish there would be a place where all aspects of torpor would be covered, and maybe people would state how they'll react regarding torpor before fighting begins, and then said people would honour their word. But then again, I look at myself, and I see how idealistic I am... reason tells me this will probably bring nothing else than more bickering... maybe I'm pessimistic this time. *smiles*
*Looks at his lengthy speech* My, I really have been long. Sorry again.

[ophelia Lokason]

Just to get it out of the way, blood does not define power nor make one powerful. Just here and there a bit more of a fat ‘kill’. As well, yes yes-I know. Vampires don't 'die' just from blood loss.

I’d like to start first by speaking on how torpor was established. It started years ago, when a vampire by the name of Will der Bauer and his counterpart Dirktou were zero'd by the Cap Clan. Yes folks, the Cap Clan used to be a force to reckon with. In any event, Will and Dirktou were 0'd. As a way of recognizing that the enemy gained the upper hand so to speak on them, as well as to give themselves time to rejuvenate and regain some strength, they took a long period of rest. This was discussed by others and eventually that time frame was whittled down to 2 weeks.

The Battle cloak, which came years later, in theory, was supposed to be a good thing. For some, perhaps it is. However, the nature of it-how it was imagined and how it actually turned out, like so many things in this world, were not quite as one would think. Therefore some will wear the cloak, others will not.

An inherent problem that revolves around this, in my opinion, is that vampires in general are viewing torpor in the wrong fashion. Rather than viewing it as a form of respect, something this city is in desperate need of these days, to the temporary victor, it is seen as a punishment. While I can, on some level, like that of a toddler that wants to do as they wish , have whatever they want and not face consequences for it, understand the ‘punishment’ I have always preferred to see it as a reward. A show of respect. A chance to take a rest. An opportunity to evolve and return changed, or not (without suddenly morphing into a poodle and calling it a new found power or something like that-please note that I’m only using a goofy example because …I can-).


I find it vastly amusing that one will call another a hypocrite for being a vampire that observes torpor yet not wearing the cloak. I am a resting vampire, and like the years that have passed already, I do not need a garment to ensure that I hold to my beliefs. My word will be good enough, or it won't. And that should go for anyone.


I'm not sure how clear I've been, and as always this is simply my own view on things. ~shushes~

[Idony]

I'm all young and such, so I know practically squat. But I have a feeling all this 'bitching' became really apparent when papers started gaining popularity. Because, where else is there to whine?! Not that I really pay attention to zeroed ones that do moan and kick and scream when they're unhappy about something (unless I'm bored).
Papers and TV stations, besides providing the playground, go a step further and sometimes make it 'legal', within their grounds to speak while in torpor or DnB. If there are city rules, then these actions would be in pure defiance of them. Like live sex would be allowed on some human TV station in the middle of the day o.O

And listening/watching/reading about zeroed vamps being hypocritical about torpor or attackers abusing it (to borrow from black_dragonet's great examples) is annoying simply because people DO pay attention to it. Because they come back and despite being annoyed by what they see, keep coming back. If only the two parties involved dealt with it, it wouldn't be annoying to anyone because nobody would be there to view it.
On the other hand, this is what makes the papers print and the cameras roll
And let's admit, the fact that we do come back to whatever, regardless of how it irks us, is evidence that on some subconscious level, we like it. It's like masochism...

The problem with resters and nonresters is dependent on one thing, namely human nature. Laugh if you will, but that's how I view it I know I'm a lot like I was as a human, and my directives and perspectives have remained the same. If someone whines, they're prone to - the fact that it's torpor is just the current situation. They'd whine about a cold cup of coffee given the chance. If someone's abusive, they always were and always will be. So if our vampiric society is flawed, it's not so much the lack of rules or presence of absurd ones, but it's just the way each of us are.
The battlecloak itself, like Ophelia said, came about with good intentions. It became what it became not because of its nature or the nature of torpor, but because of the nature of the majority of vamps it was presented to.
And to be honest, some put it on simply out of cowardice or to be able to run their mouths without having to pay for it - same goes for neutrality. This makes the cloaked vamps with genuine and good intentions look bad sometimes, too.

I don't wear a cloak (anymore), and I follow the classic rules of torpor. I don't regret dropping my cloak because I like having choices, even if I know/hope I'll never choose not to follow torpor.
I know I'm honorable in that respect and it's enough for me, and it should be enough for whoever zeroes me next xP
If I didn't take torpor, as a 'white' vampire I'd be perfectly entitled to and would point and laugh at whoever chastised me for it!

o.o This topic seems to make people write a lot. I was determined to keep it short x.x Dang...

[rel]

Very well said. That is the complete point of torpor.

I remember the first to try out the cloak and clans who were deciding whether or not they would all don one. The biggest being for thieves. Without getting long winded, then the thoughts became to warriors wear cloaks and others do not? Yet, again the issue came down to thieves. There is an inherent flaw in the design that does not account for how the most successful clans have continued to build their bank and keep all warriors stocked up in the event they need healers and or weapons. Regardless if you do both (fight and rob) it was this flaw that ultimately made the decision to NOT wear a cloak more attractive.

Yet, even with that decision, resting rules - set in place for years prior to my turning - were honored. As ophelia stated, they were out of respect, they were out of the basic concept that if you are at war with another faction the victories made by knocking out your counterparts moved the war forward.

The entire reason the cloak was created in the first place was because an entire stock of freshly turned vampyres didn't give a shit about the laws of the land, and acted like babies. So Ravenblack created something that was optional. The fact that it's optional doesn't solve the problem though does it? Now there's this entirely different dilemma, right?

Look, I know that prior to the rags things could be moderated on a set standard based on the fact that most factions were owned by members of different clans, sometimes sworn enemies, who stayed neutral within the owning of the establishment so that all within the city existed within the same realm. If you were in torpor you didn't speak there, you weren't allowed to enter in your burned state, you were to rest or you'd be brought down to nothing again.

Simple.

It's not a bad thing, it's actually quite a beautifully honorable ritual for not only you but for your clan or family. When others talk of honor, this is the first thing I think of. When those I've loved fall, I HONOR them regardless if they're fighting on my side or against me. I honor their sacrifice and their warring skills. I honor the fact that they went down fighting. I honor their rest. Wearing a cloak has nothing to do with that. Your word is your bond, not a piece of cloth.