Any information appreciated.

[- Acheron -]

Any information regarding the ownership of this young pire would be appreciated. It seems it likes to throw holy water for no reason. Unfortunately one of them hit a student of ours.

The vampire Temuchin has drunk 4396 pints of blood.
Powers: None
Location: Bleak and 18th
Temuchin is sire to no other vampires.
Temuchin is a master vampire, with no sire.
ID: Hq8dQAPM

[Boomerangele]

I don't know it but I will take it and teach it not to do that.

[black_dragonet]

Aug 7, 2008 18:10:18 GMT -8 - Acheron - said:

Any information regarding the ownership of this young pire would be appreciated. It seems it likes to throw holy water for no reason. Unfortunately one of them hit a student of ours.

The vampire Temuchin has drunk 4396 pints of blood.
Powers: None
Location: Bleak and 18th
Temuchin is sire to no other vampires.
Temuchin is a master vampire, with no sire.
ID: Hq8dQAPM

Moron & Inc...
Our company specialises in supplying convenient practise target for the training of young or experienced vampires...

Main Product qualities :
Durability : with over 4K BP, our targets will last you enough the teachers AND trainees to fight it before it is dead.
Training experience : our targets are devoid of any powers, hence will not frustrate trainees by resisting final scrolling or running away too far.
Example : the ease with which a powerless vampire gets zeroed will make an impression on your trainees and help motivate them to work harder and get powers.

Is equipped with a few weapons, but just enough to goad trainees to the proper anger level, not to retaliate and deter students from entering the fray.

The only known issues known with the product is that some models tend to whine for a time after they get zeroed... That goes with the brain absence that is required from our products.

We thank you for being a client of ours.

;D
Yours...

[Boomerangele]

Of course you can do that, black_dragonet, but I contend that said subjects often do more than whine or get angry. They leave the City completely. Personally, I find the City poorer in body and spirit when that occurs. The small minded of the City may proclaim, "Good riddance," but that arrogance is a pitiable character flaw, born by their own failures to remember that at one time they too needed assistance. I prefer to educate ones like Temuchin to try to learn the ways of the City. Sometimes I am successful, sometimes not, but simply using these lost souls as target practice teaches them nothing but that you can be a bully. I would hope you are better than that.

[black_dragonet]

In a way I agree with you... The city is poorer if they leave, and it is best if would take the opportunity to shove good and sound advice down their throats instead of HW.

Yet...
This I found a funny way to present my view on this vampire's future... and

Even if good advice is given and received, most clans tend to zero vampires unable to provide a good and sound reason for throwing HW at their students. Gevurah is wise and cool-headed enough for there to still remain hope that this vamp be not zeroed, but I still believe that he will be. So maybe he'll apologise and avoid that fate. But I won't find it unfair if they do...
for a vampire does not leave the city when you zero him...

I believe that the best thing to do would be to zero him, yeah, I do believe that, for throwing a random HW. Then, instead of laughing and throwing insults at the corpse, explain that you had to do it, and why, and take the time to help that vampire grow, get powers and a decent knowledge of the ways of the city.

So practice target I'd have him be, and then also a sort of student.

"Good riddance" or arrogance are not what comes first to my mind. Education sometimes also comes with punishment, and some punishments sometimes also are used as examples.

[- Acheron -]

The thing I'd like everyone to know and understand is that Ordo Illuminati takes no delight in zeroing another vampire regardless of the reason.
Whenever something like this happens, we always take every measure possible to make contact with the offending pire.
We prefer to take a diplomatic position and will gladly accept a sincere apology and reasonable explanation.
Furthermore , we would also be willing to let it be water under the bridge if the vampire in question would express a willingness to learn and grow in the ways of the city. We would most certainly be willing to consider them for our school.
The city is a tough place with many dynamics in play. There are many reason for such an occurrence to have taken place.
Things are rarely what they seem but we like to give the benefit of the doubt whenever possible.
This being said....if and when all possible attempts at diplomacy have been exhausted, we will exorcise our sovereign right to defend our membership from any and all unjust and unwarranted attacks.
I understand that philosophies will differ in this kind of a situation.
We feel it is important to protect our members and the sovereignty of the clan at large.
Some will declare that such force is never justified.
To this notion I cannot disagree more. I applaud The Sun clan and Boomerangle for their consistency in establishing themselves as the Switzerland of Ravenblack city but this is not who or what we are.
We believe in a strong defense and being ready and willing to use it in a just and controlled manner.
I don't think this makes us good, evil, neutral , independent or anything. We simply believe that any clan who wishes to thrive in the city must have a strong defensive force at the ready for all incursions small or large.

[Boomerangele]

Gevurah - You and I have had many a discussion about our philosophies. I am happy to see that you will use diplomacy as a first option. It has been my experience that the ones that have no powers but are high blooded often do not understand the things they find and are the ones most likely to abandon the City if treated forcefully. There are of course, foolish and flippant ones who cannot apologize and for those.... a dose of black_dragonet's training school at Morons.Inc may indeed be a suitable solution. My offer stands to take this one under wing should you not do so yourself if he/she is willing. Only with your permission would I approach as I would never interfere with your clan's business.

black_dragonet - Your "company" description indeed was amusing. It is my character flaw, however, that I seem never to have lost compassion and empathy, especially for fledglings such as this one, and I am sometimes blinded by these more human flaws. It is why I am neutral and always will be. Unlike most in the City I never see punishment as a first solution. If they apologize and you zero them anyway, what have they learned? They have learned not to respond or bother to apologize. If all they know of the City is blood and you take that from them, you have offered them nothing and taken everything (in their eyes.) Anything you say after that will fall on dead and deaf ears.

[- Acheron -]

If they apologize, they will not be zeroed by us. We are not without compassion. If you are able to make contact and this pire accepts your offer, I would ask that you contact me or Starr. Let us know that you have made contact and perhaps we can arrange a conference to resolve the issue. I prefer a peaceful resolve if possible and I like working with our friends in the city for our mutual benefit.
So long as we are able to attain a peaceful resolution, I am all for it.
However, if this young one ignores all attempts to contact him.......he will need something to get his attention.

[Bug Merovingian]

In support of what my sire has stated, I will say that we at OI have been in a situation previously where the "offender" had no knowledge of how the city works. Attempts at diplomacy failed, due to a lack of response, which precipitated attacks by OI. Only after a great deal of blood was lost on behalf of our target did they contact one of us. At that point diplomacy resumed. This individual does not want to join a clan, as they prefer to roam the city alone, and yet they hungered for information. We have given the basics to this individual to help in getting them started, without requiring them to join OI. Occasionally this individual will have questions, which are answered to our fullest ability. We are empathetic toward those who show a willingness to work with us. Regrettably we may not always be so.

[black_dragonet]

*bows*
You all do well... which is maybe why you are leaders and I am not.

I tend to forgive offences against me more easily than those against friends or pupils of mine.
My clan is not very forgiving towards those who attack a member. I am a simple guard who will not question orders. I obey them.

Then, one thought comes to my mind... What is blood level? what is knowledge? Which one would I more readily lose?

Part of my stance might be explained by the fact that my original sire chose to be zeroed over precisely that fact... He HWed a student of SIE, for reasons he found justified. He was offered the opportunity to apologise and declined it. He prefered to say that he would not apologise since when he had done the deed, he felt justified. Discussion with Hesu convinced him to partially change his ways, yet he would not bear anyone saying or believing he had apologised to avoid a zeroing. Thus, he chose to be zeroed, and start anew. Some sort of catharsis. He taught me much of his wicked and strange views about honour.

Regarding the issue at hand, I believe that it is good that if an apology is offered he be spared the zeroing. I also believe it would be good if he were to choose to be zeroed and join a clan that would teach him the proper ways of the city, to join that clan without past, his error shed from him with the blood.

Strange, maybe, yet somehow logical to me.

[- Acheron -]

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me but then again..I always did appreciate your insight and words of wisdom.