Moons
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Posts: 863
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Post by Moons on Oct 3, 2009 7:55:44 GMT -8
Why War? I’ve seen a lot of different things plastered over the papers, theories as to why this war took place and beliefs based on a few presumptions. The only problem with the above is that theories are not fact, and presumptions, while they are good for critical thinking, don’t quite get the truth of the matter out in the open. To be quite frank, the war happened because both sides wanted it, and have wanted it for some time. I’ve been hearing for months, even before I joined the Dumont family from various places that both the Dumonts and L’In were edging their way towards battle; going so far as to throw off the farce of good public relations and even be “Pissy” at each other on occasion. Do I think that the animosity between the two groups was entirely and blatantly evident to the outside world at all times? No, but it was still there. I don’t think that the Dumont family acting preemptively to fight a foe that could possibly give them a problem in the future is a bad thing, it’s just sound strategy. Why Spy? I’ve noticed a lot of buzz about the spy issue, so I’m going to go ahead and try to answer a few of the questions that I could gather from what’s been said. Firstly, spying has been done by many groups in the past; it is a solid way to get an opposing group’s numbers, allies, and so on. Intel is a huge part of this city, and the way that one gets that intelligence really shouldn’t have very much to do with the strength of the group’s warriors, or their honor on the battlefield. In fact, I have seen at least one of the well established clans who allowed their members to sleep with rival clan leaders in order to gain intelligence. However, that’s neither here nor there. The importance of the information gathering is the why. There are really two reasons for Kae’s becoming a spy, I suppose. The first is of course, rather obvious. Gaining information has been a huge help for the Dumonts in the waging of this war. However, the second part, the one that most people haven’t put together yet is that by Kae coming out as a spy, she simultaneously did two things. She boosted the Dumont morale by letting them know that they were secure on their information and in their ability to get a spy into another clan. And, it served to throw a wrench into the L’In strategies. If you know your enemy has your battle plans, you try to change them. I, of course, would not have revealed this earlier in the war, but I think that it is safe to now. Warriors? Okay, so I realize by the end of this section that everyone is going to think I’m a huge asshole. Oh well. I’ve seen a lot of “You fought hard. You fought well” in the obituaries of those who the Patchwork have made to fall. I’m sorry, but the only members of the clan that have fought well and hard, are Tifereth, Toki, and –Tatyn-. Tif fell the first day because her blood was low, but she took more from me than I believe I’ve taken in the rest of the encounters. Toki and –Tatyn- have been fighting valiantly from day one and have always been there to combat us; it’s frustrating as hell, but I think they did amazingly. Edan did not fight. He moved to bite. Moved to bind to Kiara, and maybe hit one person when they were hitting him. He shouted a lot…but he didn’t fight. King Lestat fought well, he just fell quickly because he was an obvious Alpha Priority target. Lyric, if I recall, only walked around the battlefield and let other people try to chase her while her clan members would swoop in and hit them. It was a nice strategy, just didn’t work out so well. Why do I even bring this up? Because I’ve fought in wars before. I’ve seen some very good warriors fall and I believe in giving credit where it is due. Kudos to Lyric, Toki, and –Tatyn- for battlefield strategy. Kudos to Lestat and Tif for being damn good warriors. Everyone else…not so much. On the other hand, I’m very proud of the Dumonts who have fought consistently each night. Why For The Outcome? Everything happened in this war for a reason. Basically, I can attribute the outcome so far to a few things. Strategy is probably the biggest and most key factor here. After subverting most of the L’In battleplans (Ones which weren’t replaced until the second day of warfare, and far too late for them to matter), the Dumonts were able to pull in some allies, which brought the member count to 18 for the L’In, and about 25 for the entirety of the Patchwork. Bolstered numbers and smooth, quick battle have made the Patchwork a force to be reckoned with in this battle. Did we hit L’In when they were down? Maybe. A clan should be able to ensure that their group has coins. Coins are a huge part of warfare; they should also see that the clan members have blood. From what I saw, the L’In rely on their ability to necro up to around 5k every few days of hitting, the only problem with which being that they have to spend a metric ton of coins in order to keep that going. Poorly laid strategy is not the fault of the Dumonts. It’s been months since the end of the Ferry war, a war that they pulled out of early. Shoddy plans, lack of communication between the majority member group (Such that some members knew that the L’In leaders had hired the Splinters to kill our succor heads, and some didn’t), and disorganization on the battlefield are what have lead to such quick losses for L’In. Trying to subvert the valiant fight that the Patchwork Alliance has put forth by shouting “Dishonor” does not effectively win a war. And, while it does temporarily boost Public Relations…in the end the truth always comes out. Splintahs, Bitches I believe that the splinters were called in the night that Kaelani was “caught” as a spy. They only just happened to start hitting a few days later when the Dumonts had already begun to hit the members of L’In. I can respect the SoD for their honoring of a contract, but I do think that in the past, when a person has been involved in a war, that the SoD stopped hitting until after the conflict was over, which is something that hasn’t happened. Ultimately, I’m not going to complain, because other than Toki, and Irk, if the Splinters weren’t focused on retal, then nobody would be for L’In. Please, if I missed any questions and so forth, let me know and I’ll be sure to answer them. Feel free to critique, discuss, and so on. I will only reply to valid questions concerning the war. The Dumonts, thus far have been very good about not defacing, defiling, or degrading our foes, and we would like for what happens on the battlefield to stay there. There is no reason for this to turn ugly.
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Ace Dumont
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Tulip King[C01:FFCC00]
Posts: 263
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Post by Ace Dumont on Oct 3, 2009 8:01:02 GMT -8
^^ This post reviewed and approved by Ace before being posted.
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Post by black_dragonet on Oct 3, 2009 8:39:41 GMT -8
*nods* I commend both sides for their handling of the casualties. I have never been overly fond of body desecration.
Your reasons are your reasons, and we shouldn’t comment on them. Your timing was good on your side of it, and bad on their side. I agree with your statement: that’s just sound strategy.
I notice that you do not seem to consider L’inconnu’s handling of Kaelani’s case to be inappropriate. While I find spying dishonourable in itself, I understand it is useful, and sometimes can be necessary. I could not and would not be a spy myself, but I understand your explanations
I think that there are a bunch of good fighters in L’inconnu, but I think that in terms of resource and advance planning, they didn’t do well. Globally speaking, in terms of strategy, they could and should have done better. They fought too early alongside Ferry a war that wasn’t theirs, and didn’t get anything in return, save city acknowledgement that they were good, but broke. The war is not over, but I find the patchwork alliance seems to have better heads than L’inconnu.
Splinters can be a help, but they are like usurers to a poor man: Their help comes with a heavy price, in terms of glory and fame anyway. They taint any fight to which they take part. As I said elsewhere: there is worse than losing a fight: there is losing face.
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Moons
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Post by Moons on Oct 3, 2009 8:42:53 GMT -8
Thank-you, black_dragonet. As always, your noble views on warfare are insightful and help to clear blurry lines.
*Respectful nod*
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hairbear
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Venimus Atque Infernum Nobiscum
Posts: 320
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Post by hairbear on Oct 3, 2009 9:36:57 GMT -8
Why War? I’ve seen a lot of different things plastered over the papers, theories as to why this war took place and beliefs based on a few presumptions. The only problem with the above is that theories are not fact, and presumptions, while they are good for critical thinking, don’t quite get the truth of the matter out in the open. September 28th, 2009, my childe Kaelani was brought to zero by Clan L'inconnu. The proverbial straw that broke the camels back. I don't think anyone from either side of this war will say that it came as a surprise. Attacks began yesterday, many caught in live-battles, and already a casualty has fallen. Tifereth, once again, it was a damned honour as it always has been to fight with you. Today I woke to attacks and an announcement from the Splinters that a very Timely contract had been taken out on myself and one other leader in my line. And so; Dumont Family, Clan Tal'mahe'Ra, and Clan Unity officially declare War on Clan L'inconnu. See y'all in the streets. To be quite frank, the war happened because both sides wanted it, and have wanted it for some time. I’ve been hearing for months, even before I joined the Dumont family from various places that both the Dumonts and L’In were edging their way towards battle; going so far as to throw off the farce of good public relations and even be “Pissy” at each other on occasion. How very interesting, all this posturing and bandwagon jumping over a poorly executed attempt at spying? Very droll. Now the result, or current situation at hand, is no more than anybody in this city would expect. She (The spy, Aka Kaelani) was caught, and she was zeroed. This supposed 'straw that broke the camels back', comes suspiciously on the heels of these events. Yet, through it all, L'inconnu has had no desire to be associated with the Dumonts or their 'allies.' Still it's comical, that they have so many grievances, yet they're only spoken through whispers and half-baked back alley schemes ... Their attempt at using us as a social stepping stone however, will be met with exactly what it deserves; very little effort on our part, and a contract to the Splinters to clean up the mess they (Ace&Co.) made. Do I think that the animosity between the two groups was entirely and blatantly evident to the outside world at all times? No, but it was still there. I don’t think that the Dumont family acting preemptively to fight a foe that could possibly give them a problem in the future is a bad thing, it’s just sound strategy. Why Spy? I’ve noticed a lot of buzz about the spy issue, so I’m going to go ahead and try to answer a few of the questions that I could gather from what’s been said. Firstly, spying has been done by many groups in the past; it is a solid way to get an opposing group’s numbers, allies, and so on. Intel is a huge part of this city, and the way that one gets that intelligence really shouldn’t have very much to do with the strength of the group’s warriors, or their honor on the battlefield. In fact, I have seen at least one of the well established clans who allowed their members to sleep with rival clan leaders in order to gain intelligence. However, that’s neither here nor there. The importance of the information gathering is the why. There are really two reasons for Kae’s becoming a spy, I suppose. The first is of course, rather obvious. Gaining information has been a huge help for the Dumonts in the waging of this war. However, the second part, the one that most people haven’t put together yet is that by Kae coming out as a spy, she simultaneously did two things. She boosted the Dumont morale by letting them know that they were secure on their information and in their ability to get a spy into another clan. And, it served to throw a wrench into the L’In strategies. If you know your enemy has your battle plans, you try to change them. I, of course, would not have revealed this earlier in the war, but I think that it is safe to now. Warriors? Okay, so I realize by the end of this section that everyone is going to think I’m a huge asshole. Oh well. I’ve seen a lot of “You fought hard. You fought well” in the obituaries of those who the Patchwork have made to fall. I’m sorry, but the only members of the clan that have fought well and hard, are Tifereth, Toki, and –Tatyn-. Tif fell the first day because her blood was low, but she took more from me than I believe I’ve taken in the rest of the encounters. Toki and –Tatyn- have been fighting valiantly from day one and have always been there to combat us; it’s frustrating as hell, but I think they did amazingly. Edan did not fight. He moved to bite. Moved to bind to Kiara, and maybe hit one person when they were hitting him. He shouted a lot…but he didn’t fight. King Lestat fought well, he just fell quickly because he was an obvious Alpha Priority target. Lyric, if I recall, only walked around the battlefield and let other people try to chase her while her clan members would swoop in and hit them. It was a nice strategy, just didn’t work out so well. Why do I even bring this up? Because I’ve fought in wars before. I’ve seen some very good warriors fall and I believe in giving credit where it is due. Kudos to Lyric, Toki, and –Tatyn- for battlefield strategy. Kudos to Lestat and Tif for being damn good warriors. Everyone else…not so much. On the other hand, I’m very proud of the Dumonts who have fought consistently each night. Why For The Outcome? Everything happened in this war for a reason. Basically, I can attribute the outcome so far to a few things. Strategy is probably the biggest and most key factor here. After subverting most of the L’In battleplans (Ones which weren’t replaced until the second day of warfare, and far too late for them to matter), the Dumonts were able to pull in some allies, which brought the member count to 18 for the L’In, and about 25 for the entirety of the Patchwork. Bolstered numbers and smooth, quick battle have made the Patchwork a force to be reckoned with in this battle. Did we hit L’In when they were down? Maybe. A clan should be able to ensure that their group has coins. Coins are a huge part of warfare; they should also see that the clan members have blood. From what I saw, the L’In rely on their ability to necro up to around 5k every few days of hitting, the only problem with which being that they have to spend a metric ton of coins in order to keep that going. Poorly laid strategy is not the fault of the Dumonts. It’s been months since the end of the Ferry war, a war that they pulled out of early. Shoddy plans, lack of communication between the majority member group (Such that some members knew that the L’In leaders had hired the Splinters to kill our succor heads, and some didn’t), and disorganization on the battlefield are what have lead to such quick losses for L’In. Trying to subvert the valiant fight that the Patchwork Alliance has put forth by shouting “Dishonor” does not effectively win a war. And, while it does temporarily boost Public Relations…in the end the truth always comes out. Splintahs, Bitches I believe that the splinters were called in the night that Kaelani was “caught” as a spy. They only just happened to start hitting a few days later when the Dumonts had already begun to hit the members of L’In. I can respect the SoD for their honoring of a contract, but I do think that in the past, when a person has been involved in a war, that the SoD stopped hitting until after the conflict was over, which is something that hasn’t happened. Ultimately, I’m not going to complain, because other than Toki, and Irk, if the Splinters weren’t focused on retal, then nobody would be for L’In. Please, if I missed any questions and so forth, let me know and I’ll be sure to answer them. Feel free to critique, discuss, and so on. I will only reply to valid questions concerning the war. The Dumonts, thus far have been very good about not defacing, defiling, or degrading our foes, and we would like for what happens on the battlefield to stay there. There is no reason for this to turn ugly. This "war" reminds me of bullies on the school yard, only worse. To insure your success you find a couple other young clans wanting to make a name for themselves, and attack a clan that fought brilliantly in a legitimate war. What's that saying, "Kick them while they're down."
Your reasoning for Kaelani is absolutely asinine. Boosting the family moral? *Snorts* Bullshit. Secondly, I find it hard to believe that L'inconnu was planning an attack on the Dumont family. Lastly, why would anyone want a spy caught? They are much more useful in place. I think this entire issue with Kaelani was planned and executed from the start.
I think that Ace wanted to portray himself as a strong family leader to his hoards and what better way than to start a war?
In theory, not a bad idea but he did not take into consideration the factors he cannot control..... other people's perceptions. I find his actions distasteful. What respect I once had for the Dumont family is gone.
I also see Clan Tal'mahe'Ra trying to make a name for themselves without taking much risk. There is no honor in attacking a clan rebuilding from an extended war. None.
Inasmuch as your words of wisdom Black_dragonet, when you start spilling your blood on the streets of Raven Black City, I will consider your thoughts about war.
Moons, I don't think you're an asshole, I think you are being ruled by emotions. You love Ace and as a good husband, you defend his actions. I understand this and accept it even though it saddens me.I stand by my earlier statement on the war commentary: I find vanity the worst of all "sins". It has little purpose than to build egos in those of that are weak natured. It is a hunger that is never sated and in the end it destroys all that loves it.
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Moons
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Posts: 863
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Post by Moons on Oct 3, 2009 10:33:41 GMT -8
I’m sorry I missed this before, black_dragonet, but I had to run and shower. Blood only looks appealing in certain lights, after all. To answer your words though, no I don’t consider the handling to be inappropriate. Kaelani knew what she was getting into when she approached Ace with information about L’In, and she executed her part perfectly in it. It makes me sad that she had to fall, but she is viewed as a hero among her family, and will be much celebrated upon her return to us. I also, personally, have made sure that everything she lost in her zeroing will be restored two fold.
I know that if there were a spy in my famiy’s midst, I would see them slain as well. But that doesn’t mean that I would not commend the other side for a hand well played. Which is ultimately what this entire war has been, as shown very evidently by the results thus far. Once again, thank-you for your unwavering unbias.
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I, in no way, mean to be rude, hairbear, but I believe that you’ve primarily just re-expressed your opinions. I tried to very clearly answer them, and all that I’ve seen you do is restate what you’ve already said, which is fine because opposing views are part of what makes war fun. However, I will go through again for the sake of continuity and re-answer anything that has been brought up in your post once more. Please bear with me if I seem to ramble.
What defines the difference between legitimacy and illegitimacy? I believe that the war is fought for fair reason, as do many other people. Obviously the other side does as well or they would not be attempting to retaliate and draw the Patchwork into live battles. They hired the splinters and spent large sums of money to take out our succor heads, which is a strategic maneuver on their part.
We have, indeed, recruited other clans to aid us as allies, but I still do not quite see how this is a bad thing. Our numbers were smaller than theirs at the beginning of this, and only after we bolstered, were we able to have something comparable; this is not bullying, this is strategy and warfare as seen throughout the world for thousands of years.
If younger clans want to make a name for themselves, that is their prerogative. A bigger name means more members, which means larger clans and clan break offs. Taking three small clans and aiding them is viewed as bullying? In two years, TRM, The Invictus, and Unity may be much larger, have many more members, and it will be a rich part of their history that they were able to fight side, by side.
I won’t argue against your words on L’In’s past actions. I think that they may have fought very well, but that doesn’t change their disorganization, lack of strategy and lack of communication in this one. It is the clan leader’s responsibility to ensure that the members are ready for battle, not the opposing side’s.
I gave multiple reasons for Kaeani’s part in this war. Dismissing one without listening to the others is not debating or asking for clarity, it’s arguing. And, to answer the one that you did answer; the Dumont morale has been soaring since the beginning. You may say as you like, but words are only words. Results speak louder.
You don’t have to believe that the L’In were planning an attack on the Dumont family. As I said earlier, opposing views are part of what makes wartime fun. I’ve seen the evidence through the months past, and the Patchwork supporters have too. Ultimately, as I said earlier, the truth will come out as it always does. The Dumonts could easily have done as the L’In have and tried to either hire someone else to do the majority of their work, or tried to taint the other side’s honor with slander. We haven’t. Instead, we have fought, and those actions are what will be marked in history.
As to your views on how a spy can and cannot be used, I believe that, once again, the results speak louder than the speculations. Strategy is an ever evolving body of study, and the only way to stay ahead of the game is to remain innovative. Though you are right, her part was planned out, though it wasn’t from the start. She entered the clan far before she ever approached Ace with evidence of L’In war activities and preparation. She executed her abilities as an actress very well, and no amount of mudslinging will change her integral part in this war.
He is a strong family leader. But many of the best leaders have not overly involved themselves in wars. My siress, Majica is more known for her pacifism than she is for her war exploits, though both are famed throughout the city. War is a good way to bolster leadership standing, but so is diplomacy, intelligence, and force behind will.
As for your personal distaste for the Dumont’s actions, yours is but one of many perceptions. Perhaps with time will come clarity, and with clarity will come respect.
Clan TMR, has devoted three warriors to our cause, one of who brought their spouse. They are not a huge clan and increasing their prestige via war is perfectly sound. As for the level of risk involved, I have seen the TMR members hit alongside the Dumont warriors. They have given coins to their other allies who were in need, and have lost blood from this. If L’In were more organized, there would be greater risk involved in this fight. It is not TMR’s fault for that.
You discount his thoughts on war because he has high blood, for which you take to mean that he does not fight (I cannot say one way or the other). And, you discount my opinions and the opinions of other warriors on this same matter even though their blood bathes the streets. Why is this? I understand that you dislike how the situation was handled, but does nobody hold any valid argument against your claims save for those who have spoken and not acted?
I am a spider, dear. I am very rarely ruled overly by emotions. I am a cautious warrior, but brave and loyal. I do love Ace, but I speak in defense of not his actions, but of the whole of the Dumonts. Members such as Lannair, Jacomo, Anna, Ita and the others who have lain their blood on the line to defend their family. Regardless of anyone’s views, I am proud of them, because they are the future of the Dumont family, and they are already showing their honor and love for our family.
However, I have tried to keep my neutral tone so far as the political side of this event has gone. I have been polite to both L’In and their supporters, just as all of the Dumonts have. I am not trying to “call you out” or anything, but your words nearly everywhere, concerning this topic have been laced with malice, bias, and unrelenting scorn for Ace and then the Dumonts by association. I am sorry that my words make you sad, but that will not change my conviction, just as I doubt my words will sway your ideology. I can only hope that you think a bit more on the events and on my words, before continuing to defame that which I hold dear, because I know that I would attempt to do the same for you despite a negative disposition.
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Boomerangele
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Pleasurably Pink[C01:white]
Posts: 593
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Post by Boomerangele on Oct 3, 2009 10:44:44 GMT -8
Oh hairbear, you're so cute and so very, very young. Legitimate war? Just because you fought in one war you can pronounce it legitimate and this one not? I'm not usually prone to providing history lessons... suffice it to say that there have been "legitimate" wars before for sillier reasons. Read and learn.
The very thing you accuse Clan Tal'mahe'Ra of doing - making a name for themselves - is exactly what L’inconnu did in the last war. The fact L’inconnu lack resources, and war is all about resources, is nobody's fault but their own. There is not a special "rebuilding time" during which a clan is safe from being attacked again. Get off the kindergarden playground where (un)life is fair and everyone plays nice.
You are of course free is discount everything I have said because of my neutrality, just as you have black_dragonet's simply because you have not been here long enough to have seen him fight in a war. Closing your ears to wisdom is your choice but it will doom you to similar displays of ignorance.
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Ace Dumont
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Tulip King[C01:FFCC00]
Posts: 263
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Post by Ace Dumont on Oct 3, 2009 10:50:27 GMT -8
On a note of resources I've got one point to make: If they lacked resources, maybe they shouldn't have spent nearly half a million coins to take a contract out with Splinters on myself and my Sire. But, maybe that's just the voice of common sense speaking here. By all means, continue calling me a bully... it sure as hell wouldn't be the first time. But, don't tell me it's my fault when someone else mismanages their own coins.
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Vex
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Psychotic[C01:FFFFFF]
Posts: 489
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Post by Vex on Oct 3, 2009 11:52:58 GMT -8
Ace, get a gag for your moron bitch plaything. He has nothing of import or value to say.
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Post by Majica on Oct 3, 2009 12:20:34 GMT -8
Ace, get a gag for your moron bitch plaything. He has nothing of import or value to say. Obviously you don't either, except for what you may think is a whimsical put down. Really Vex. I expected better from you than this.
If you have something substantial to say other than whine about Moons, then please state it clearly. Otherwise, please remember, that trying to impose a gag order on a Wilde isn't a good thing. Remember your history lessons.
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Moons
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Posts: 863
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Post by Moons on Oct 3, 2009 12:22:18 GMT -8
Ace, get a gag for your moron bitch plaything. He has nothing of import or value to say. Your view neither expresses opinion about the war, nor asks for clarity on any view. Please take your lack of insight and criticism elsewhere. When you have something "Of value" as you've stated it, to put into this debate, then feel free to respond. Otherwise, this is Ace's soapbox, not the community bathroom. Edit: Majica's fingers were faster than mine. Again.
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hairbear
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Venimus Atque Infernum Nobiscum
Posts: 320
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Post by hairbear on Oct 3, 2009 12:32:52 GMT -8
Oh hairbear, you're so cute and so very, very young. Legitimate war? Just because you fought in one war you can pronounce it legitimate and this one not? I'm not usually prone to providing history lessons... suffice it to say that there have been "legitimate" wars before for sillier reasons. Read and learn. The very thing you accuse Clan Tal'mahe'Ra of doing - making a name for themselves - is exactly what L’inconnu did in the last war. The fact L’inconnu lack resources, and war is all about resources, is nobody's fault but their own. There is not a special "rebuilding time" during which a clan is safe from being attacked again. Get off the kindergarden playground where (un)life is fair and everyone plays nice. You are of course free is discount everything I have said because of my neutrality, just as you have black_dragonet's simply because you have not been here long enough to have seen him fight in a war. Closing your ears to wisdom is your choice but it will doom you to similar displays of ignorance. I have to say I had a good chuckle from your comments Boomer. I must have struck a nerve when I blantantly discounted Black_dragonet's ramblings on war. Why do all you neutral types feel you need to advise us about war? Young, not hardly but there is an honor to war. It was not honorable for Archangel to send out younglings to fight in a war over semantics and ego. There was no honor in zeroing ones so young and powerless nor was there honor in placing them in harms way. There is no glory is such things. Ace has been building his family for some time now. He has waited for the opportunity to show the city what he has been doing. That's fine, I understand pride and all that comes with it but, to chose a clan that fought well from an extended war, knowing that they haven't recovered blood and coins, is the cowards way. I don't discount what you say Boomer. I know that you have observed many things over the years and I am sure you have instigated a number of issues too but until you allow your own blood to be spilled on the streets of Raven Black City you will never truly understand the loss or the thrill of war. You would be surprised what I can pronounce. An extensive vocabulary is only good to show others your level of education. If you cannot communicate to the masses, then the words are lost, no matter how good they taste on the tongue. I have nothing to gain from defending my thoughts except peace of mind. I have no connection to Clan L’inconnu except for respect one warrior shows another. In fact, I risk my own well being for voicing my opinions. So be it. I live by a code of honor that is my own. I will not allow politics and fear rule my unlife, tis better to be dead. **************************************************** Moons, where did I discount your comments about Kaelani? Kaelani has made her bed now. She has no other options at this point. She is forever branded as a traitor. It is one thing to have an allegiance to a family/clan and then infiltrate another group, but it is wholly another issue to betray friendship and trust to gain influence with another force. It shows true nature. *shrugs* Like I always say, water seeks it's own level. I don't disregard what you and other warriors say Moons. Just because I don't agree with what is being said and done doesn't mean I don't listen. You're kidding me, right? You are trying to be neutral? I personally have no issues with the Dumont family. My issue is how this war started and how it's been handled. Actions speak volumes. If you find my words offensive and "defaming", I am sorry. I speak only the truth as I see it. I speak only for myself and not for my family or clan. Glossing over the truth is something I despise. If you feel you need to pretty up you actions then maybe you need to rethink your motives. I have reiterated my statements here because you seem to like to post your thoughts all around the newspaper. I don't really need to ask why. **************************************************** Ace. A million coin is nothing for a war. A drop in a bucket. Taking out the succour head is the wise move. The expense goes up astronomically when SoTele is used to replace SofS. Cutting the head off the proverbial snake is always a good move.
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Moons
New Member
Posts: 863
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Post by Moons on Oct 3, 2009 12:48:03 GMT -8
Cutting through the restatement and deflamatory remarks I found...
I stated that I was keeping a neutral tone which was explained immediately after the first sentence of that paragraph.
And...
Your key argument is that the L'In were unprepared. If they have the coin to hire splinters, they have the coin to fight, which is what Ace was saying. Just the same, I've been in bigger wars were far less was spent. I believe it's all about money management.
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hairbear
New Member
Venimus Atque Infernum Nobiscum
Posts: 320
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Post by hairbear on Oct 3, 2009 13:17:32 GMT -8
Aren't we just being the drama queen. Just because I disagree, my statements are now defamatory remarks. *laughs*
Arguing with me seems rather desperate, considering I am an outsider looking in.
Dumont family declared war on Clan L’inconnu. The Dumonts were already hitting Clan L’inconnu members before the SoD announced their contract by Ace.
Hiring the SoD is the quickest way to knock out the succour head. It was tactically sound, they just didn't have enough coin to hold out before being zero'd.
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Moons
New Member
Posts: 863
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Post by Moons on Oct 3, 2009 13:19:38 GMT -8
And now you're simply looking for an argument were there isn't one. I will keep tabs on this thread for anyone further who has questions and opinions concerning the war.
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