Lyric
New Member
One True[C01:8E2323]
Posts: 994
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Post by Lyric on Nov 21, 2009 13:39:48 GMT -8
5) is the number of fingers in one hand. Not always true. >.> Also, I love your list.
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Beezil
New Member
IC: Beezil | OOC: Emma
Posts: 123
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Post by Beezil on Nov 21, 2009 13:49:25 GMT -8
I'd just like to say I think as players, we should hold a certain amount of respect for each other in game and outside of it. I don't think taking IC things OOC is right, but neither is berating a character to the point that they feel it is necessary to get a moderator. It was just vicious, and honestly, I don't think it had anything to do with writing a story for the characters involved, more so with the players entertaining themselves over some soap opera drama. Getting their jollies, as some would say. (I guess some people won't be able to tell there's a difference between those two things... but to me, there should be some form of story/character development going on when writing is being done, and I did not see any there. Collaboration ftw.) To me, this game is about entertainment, yes, so in that respect I suppose the people involved were just playing the game the way they saw fit. But, in another light, I saw a gang of school yard kids ganging up on someone to pick a fight for fun. I'm sure many of us know all too well the internet harassment that runs rampant, particularly in the ghettos of RBC. It's one thing to state your opinion, it IS disgusting and pathetic to drag a feud out in PUBLIC until both parties are blue in the face. Have some class! Just because your character is an asshole/bitch/smart mouth, does not give you the right to harass anyone, IC or OOC. It really just makes you look like a fool in the long run, and I suppose it should not matter to me or anyone else, but I felt it necessary to say this because honestly, I -was- disgusted by what I saw in that thread. And if any of you think for a minute I take this stance because I'm friends with Monica IC/OOC, think again. I don't even know the woman. I've talked to her character maybe a few times, briefly, and never had any qualms with her. Regardless, I give her the same respect as a PLAYER as I would to anyone else. Even characters Beezil despises still get common courtesy, because I believe that is what is right in the gaming world.
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Damari
New Member
[C01:Yellow]
Posts: 1,410
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Post by Damari on Nov 21, 2009 14:02:57 GMT -8
Yeah - but Damari doesn't Do common courtesy and you're attempting to put our human ideals on that of our characters which is wrong.
They aren't REAL, their motivations, their impulses, their whole modus operandi is not real.
You know what. I don't and will not take responsibility for another person's inability to differentiate between what is real and what is not. It is not my responsibility to ensure another player is having a good time, or that their emotional wellbeing is kept in tact because they're not dealing well with the content of what happens IC.
I don't doubt for a minute that it was hard as biscuit to deal with what was thrown at Majica over the last few days. But also don't doubt for a minute that at any time, Monica could have walked away, ignored it and moved away. Which, given a role reversal I would have done myself.
But I absolutely will not go around changing Damari because someone chooses to take their character's deal personally.
Take responsibility for your own ability to not play with people you disagree with. Or responsibility for just you know, not reading it. It is NOT my responsibility to ensure someone ELSES emotional stability.
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Post by Damiana Jones on Nov 21, 2009 14:08:42 GMT -8
Just because your character is an asshole/bitch/smart mouth, does not give you the right to harass anyone, IC or OOC. I Someone said this a long time ago. I forgot who it was. But it was said. Back then when it was said, I believed the statement to be true. And I still do.
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Beezil
New Member
IC: Beezil | OOC: Emma
Posts: 123
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Post by Beezil on Nov 21, 2009 14:09:11 GMT -8
Yeah - but Damari doesn't Do common courtesy and you're attempting to put our human ideals on that of our characters which is wrong. They aren't REAL, their motivations, their impulses, their whole modus operandi is not real. You know what. I don't and will not take responsibility for another person's inability to differentiate between what is real and what is not. It is not my responsibility to ensure another player is having a good time, or that their emotional wellbeing is kept in tact because they're not dealing well with the content of what happens IC. I don't doubt for a minute that it was hard as biscuit to deal with what was thrown at Majica over the last few days. But also don't doubt for a minute that at any time, Monica could have walked away, ignored it and moved away. Which, given a role reversal I would have done myself. But I absolutely will not go around changing Damari because someone chooses to take their character's deal personally. Take responsibility for your own ability to not play with people you disagree with. Or responsibility for just you know, not reading it. It is NOT my responsibility to ensure someone ELSES emotional stability. I understand your point, really I do. I'm all about freedom of speech and freedom to write... but where do we draw the line? There should be a point, I think, where things get taken into private or dropped completely. I agree that Monica would have been wise to simply walk away from the situation, that is one of the first things I said about it. I don't think it's your responsibility to make sure others are having a good time, but I do think we as players need to be mindful that not -everyone- playing the game is an adult or at the same maturity level. I guess I've just played too many MMORPGs... I know this one is a hell of a lot different than most. It's hard to have freedom and be mindful of others at the same time... so I guess I'm stumped at this point. (edited to add the quote)
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Post by black_dragonet on Nov 21, 2009 14:12:06 GMT -8
Honestly? It takes two to tango... Just drop the matter, stop posting in a thread, and it will die quickly. It always works. Always.
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Post by Louvain on Nov 21, 2009 14:16:01 GMT -8
Good to see this place getting along without me!
Don't kill each other?
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Post by Damiana Jones on Nov 21, 2009 14:18:42 GMT -8
Well...I think it just comes to the point, can one be willing to pull back when it stops being fun for someone else? I know this is a game. But I think some times people forget they aren't the only ones playing it. They do things because it's fun. You want to make sure that the ones you are having your fun with are having fun too. No one is asking any one to change their characters. No. Game aside. It's just being asked that you be mindful of others. If she doesn't find what's going on fun, then leave her be. It's really that simple. It's not that you can't do it. It's just might be the fact that you don't want to. We are the puppeteers, not the puppets. ETA: Reese...I love you and miss you. >.> you should poke me on yim some time, you git. I hope your doing well!
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Damari
New Member
[C01:Yellow]
Posts: 1,410
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Post by Damari on Nov 21, 2009 14:25:59 GMT -8
I don't think there is a line drawn. Not IC. I just dont' think there is. I'm not writing Damari, thinking to myself, I wonder if the other character's human is okay with how Damari is acting. Damari just acts, I control her IC to be exactly as she seems to other vampires.
And for the record, yes, she harasses other vampires ALL THE TIME. It's what she does. She chips away at them until she demoralizes them and makes them cry. Or want to kill her. Or both.
Now OOC, hell yes, try not to be mean to others. I'm not the easiest person ooc cause I pucker up like a prude when I'm trying to make a point that I feel is being misused or maligned by ignorance or purposely obtuse opinion. But I'm not vindictive or mean, and when appropriate I'm all for being considerate when you're talking to other people ooc.
If ooc issues arise, sure we'll deal with it. But I have little empathy for players that use ooc as a hammer to slam away at people or as a tool to use to manipulate.
I'm with Etienne. Turn the other cheek if you yourself don't want to deal with it. It's nice and easy.
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Post by Louvain on Nov 21, 2009 14:30:03 GMT -8
Honestly, it'd be getting along fine if everyone used a little common sense and quit being inconsiderate. I'm strongly thinking the idea of hiring moderators was a bad idea because people who are claiming they didn't want to change anything about Bite are now pushing and pushing and pushing to change every little thing now that they're in a position of power, no matter how small.
Bite was fine before and the only reason I tried to hire them was because of my upcoming situation regarding my home. I thought it would be nice to have people I could trust backing up things on Bite and keeping them flowing smoothly should something come up to where I didn't have internet. Unfortunately, as with any job, I'm discovering that it feels a lot like people lied on their applications. Some people who've claimed they don't want to change anything are trying to change everything. And I mean, it's really hard for me to believe that people don't understand the rules when they've sat here for a year and a half and listened to them, watched them be enforced and been fine with them up until the point that they were made a moderator, at which point it's become "How can we punish this person? what can we do to ban this person?" and I'm not alright with that.
I have busted my ass and fought to actually have the administrator account and to turn Bite into something that I'm incredibly proud of and have built on my own merit. I do devote a lot of time to it weekly and whether or not that's acknowledged or made aware of doesn't detract from it.
Bite was fine before and I'm finding myself really disappointed with this experiment because the goal was not to change Bite but improve it in such a way that its basic value stayed intact and it kept running as smoothly and as beautifully as before. I feel like because I chose people who had moderated before on other forums, they're taking the mentality of other forums and applying it to Bite when Bite is an entity in and of itself that has a completely different concept.
I may very well have a talk with the mods and see if we can reach a consensus on the idea that Bite needs to stay the same and simply have the minimal, hands off moderating approach it's always had that people have loved, or I might scrap the idea as a failed experiment and go back to doing it myself. I'm really reaching a high level of frustration that I haven't had to deal with before regarding Bite simply because of the people who are involved and their inability to both let things go and behave in a certain way. I'd rather keep it as it was and as people loved it than run it into the ground with a brief fantasy I had of improving it.
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Post by Mandolin on Nov 21, 2009 14:47:49 GMT -8
Ok, first off I'd like to rail on whoever was bugging Sirena on y!m. Seriously? I mean, come on... nothing in this game is a life and death matter that necessitates continually bugging someone to get something you don't like taken care of. It could have waited. Sirena, next time just block the person after explaining why you can't handle it then and there. I know you were out and having fun, but you're also the one who decided to go to a comp and handle it instead of just turning off y!m or ignoring the messages. While it was wrong for whoever was bugging you to do so, no one but you made you give into that pressure. Anyway... I can understand the thread being locked for inappropriate content. Given the lack of RP in the game now-a-days, this is one of the few places people interact and I know I'd hate to see it deleted, locked, or something of that sort because people don't abide by the TOS. But if we're yelling at people for breaking TOS, both David and Monica should take the fall for that one... cause that was not cool. Now I'm sorry, but I'm not going to make Mando treat Majica and differently because Monica thinks it's harassment. Mando hates Maj, and she has several reasons to... I can't just ignore years of RP like that. Kaio hates Mando because she Black Blooded and I make sure Mando handles it IC. Do I complain OOC because of the names Mando gets called? Nope. It's RP. Our vampires have their own lives and their own history. If you as a player can't accept the history your character has because of how you have RP'd them, than maybe you need to rethink how you RP. ETA: Mods = good idea given the circumstance Sirena is in. Sirena, if you need someone to look after stuff and find that you have a mod you don't think fits... poke me
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Post by black_dragonet on Nov 21, 2009 14:53:19 GMT -8
Mods are here to help you run YOUR place, and to implement YOUR rules. To me, modding is quite easy, because there's just mostly none needed. I don't want any, save the minimum required... I'll do my best to keep that, even if it means exchanging lots of PMs with lots of people, to try to find solutions. I like finding stuff where everyone gets happy.
Sirena, what you give you can take from me, I won't mind. I applied to help, not to get stars or other honorific stuff. What I don't want to see is that place to look like other places. I think I'll go bump my original thread pertaining to that...
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Post by Louvain on Nov 21, 2009 14:54:24 GMT -8
"Out having fun" is debatable, Amanda. But yes, I pretty much buckled under the constant whining of about 107 messages from various individuals (and I do mean people who were involved, mods, and people who weren't even part of it) and I decided that I'd forgo the afterparty and deal with it. I was cold, I was pissed, and I was incredibly disappointed in a pretty large group of people. As I was just saying privately, I will not create a double standard where some people are void topics because it hurts their feelings. I think individually as players you need to decide on those boundaries based on your personal beliefs and morals and if you're fine with upsetting another player over it then that's your prerogative. I, as the owner of the forum/establishment, whatever, don't hold any responsibility over your poor consideration of other human beings. What I do hold responsibility for is creating and maintaining this area of free speech. 90% of the time, you don't need moderation if you're behaving at a basic level of decorum that's appropriate for adults. Yet, a lot of people seem incapable of that. It's a common sense thing and when you lack it, this is when situations like this develop. A whole group of you dropped the ball and that's the only reason why this escalated as far as it did. Even still, I'm not going to make exceptions for one person as it would in fact make the situation worse and not better. I can't compromise my values that way, especially when I'm now dealing with having to make decisions and improvements regarding my moderation experiment.
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Post by Louvain on Nov 21, 2009 14:56:19 GMT -8
Mods are here to help you run YOUR place, and to implement YOUR rules. To me, modding is quite easy, because there's just mostly none needed. I don't want any, save the minimum required... I'll do my best to keep that, even if it means exchanging lots of PMs with lots of people, to try to find solutions. I like finding stuff where everyone gets happy. See, and I wish everyone had that understanding. I had thought it was obvious but I'm now dealing with people trying to up the moderation here when the minimal moderation is what made Bite special and great. There was an understanding that you needed to conduct yourself a certain way or you weren't going to enjoy your time here, but nobody had to jump on your case and beat you over the head with it. I wanted more moderators to help, but not more moderation. And I seem to have gotten both where it's causing a definite rift in the forum's flow.
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Beezil
New Member
IC: Beezil | OOC: Emma
Posts: 123
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Post by Beezil on Nov 21, 2009 14:58:03 GMT -8
Ok, first off I'd like to rail on whoever was bugging Sirena on y!m. Seriously? I mean, come on... nothing in this game is a life and death matter that necessitates continually bugging someone to get something you don't like taken care of. It could have waited. Sirena, next time just block the person after explaining why you can't handle it then and there. I know you were out and having fun, but you're also the one who decided to go to a comp and handle it instead of just turning off y!m or ignoring the messages. While it was wrong for whoever was bugging you to do so, no one but you made you give into that pressure. Anyway... I can understand the thread being locked for inappropriate content. Given the lack of RP in the game now-a-days, this is one of the few places people interact and I know I'd hate to see it deleted, locked, or something of that sort because people don't abide by the TOS. But if we're yelling at people for breaking TOS, both David and Monica should take the fall for that one... cause that was not cool. Now I'm sorry, but I'm not going to make Mando treat Majica and differently because Monica thinks it's harassment. Mando hates Maj, and she has several reasons to... I can't just ignore years of RP like that. Kaio hates Mando because she Black Blooded and I make sure Mando handles it IC. Do I complain OOC because of the names Mando gets called? Nope. It's RP. Our vampires have their own lives and their own history. If you as a player can't accept the history your character has because of how you have RP'd them, than maybe you need to rethink how you RP. I agree with you there. Character development and history is what makes this game great, and I applaud anyone who can live up to the level of talent it takes to really write their character well. I myself as a player find Damari and Mandolin to be very interesting, well played characters. I truly enjoy reading the little squabbles and adventures each has. However, I hate to use this term, but there comes a point in every conflict where you have to realize you're beating a dead horse.... (not aimed at Mandolin or Damari's players) and with that, I think I'm going to leave this thread alone now. ETA: Quote, again, you people are too damned fast.
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