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IGN: upir
Posts: 759
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Post by ◞◯◟ on Aug 17, 2009 11:58:42 GMT -8
When apparently vampires themselves are not capable of finding pubs, guilds, shops, and helping complete Charsima quests? It is the thralls work, because it is beneath the vampires... That is a bit close to being two faced... Not quite, although I do see what you are attempting to say. Bartenders will not give guild information out to just any vampire, so others must be directed in order to attain said information. As for shop locations and Charisma quests, it would be impossible for me to alone to visit every pub necessary; in order to maximize the benefits for others, one must utilize thralls. On the other hand, I could simply not employ thralls and leave others to do all the work for me... but that does not seem right. Having thralls get pub locations, guild locations, or help complete charisma quests merely helps satiate the selfish greed of each vampire who refuses to go to the pub and get a location themselves, who refuses to ask a human where the guilds are, or refuses to do as the Charisma quests intends and go physically find vampires to help you. All vampires are capable of getting all of these locations by themselves if they need it. On the flip side, those that are running thralls for coin may not be running them for themselves. They could be running them to help benefit others that they care about, which would be beneficial to parts of the vampiric community. You must envision yourself some type of Robin Hood who feels that they are justified to break the rules if it's helping someone else. In my view, you're nothing more than a hypocrite. You can either justify the usage or condemn it. You can't hang your balls on the fence and pick the pieces you like and trash the stuff you don't. It is not greed that prevents vampires from undertaking the tasks mentioned; it is pure laziness or a lack of proper knowledge. Either they do not want to, or they are incapable of doing so. Someone such as you, with your years in the City, should also know that humans are incapable of finding the guilds. Shops on occasion, yes, but it is generally more efficient to go to pubs and attempt to glean information from the bartender. Having a thrall collect coins for someone else is just as bad as wanting the coin for yourself. Do the young vampires simply expect everything to be handed for them? They should do the work themselves, because in getting such help they are only cheating themselves. You can have "your view" of me if you so desire, but tonight your mind has been remarkably devoid of logic or reasoning and you appear oddly incapable of seeing any of my points. Please return to this article when you have regained your senses, as I usually find you a bit... sharper. In case you have not yet realized your mistakes, I will indulge you in the most glaring of them. Firstly, about breaking the rules... what rules? In this particular situation, there are not any rules apart from the 'do not pass coins directly to yourself from your thralls, and vice-versa' -- and that I have never broken. Second, none of this is cut-and-dry. You cannot state that there are only two sides, for there is almost always a grey area. As for the part about "balls on the fence," that one I do not understand. Is it some sort of slang-type metaphor the children have been tossing about lately? Whether they are created for coin, information, or pleasure, they were created to serve their masters to help achieve wealth, power and/or status. I disagree. We may be vampires, but not all of us are self-serving creatures.
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Henry Key
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I lost the Game[C01:FFFFFF]
Posts: 559
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Post by Henry Key on Aug 17, 2009 12:05:51 GMT -8
OH MY LORD that's like crack. *blinks* is that not the topic either? It is now! I'm tired of hearing these dickheads debate semantics, let's all talk about rel's crack nao.
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hairbear
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Venimus Atque Infernum Nobiscum
Posts: 320
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Post by hairbear on Aug 17, 2009 12:11:07 GMT -8
Then why do you post your name rather than the thrall's name that gathers the information for "View in the Dark" ? Hmmm?
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rel
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byrren jous ninta yibinss wun ninta xo'a ulu kl'ae vel'bol zhah udosst..er'griff l' seke ph' shebali
Posts: 1,013
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Post by rel on Aug 17, 2009 12:18:41 GMT -8
HEY! me wanting coins for myself is ... me wanting coins for myself which is... ME WANTING SHINIES FOR MYSELF!
Your coin is my coin. *nods*
I still don't understand the topic...
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rel
New Member
byrren jous ninta yibinss wun ninta xo'a ulu kl'ae vel'bol zhah udosst..er'griff l' seke ph' shebali
Posts: 1,013
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Post by rel on Aug 17, 2009 12:21:18 GMT -8
OH MY LORD that's like crack. *blinks* is that not the topic either? It is now! I'm tired of hearing these dickheads debate semantics, let's all talk about rel's crack nao. *grins* aaaaaaaah waffles, i concur. a much better topic
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◞◯◟
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IGN: upir
Posts: 759
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Post by ◞◯◟ on Aug 17, 2009 13:02:47 GMT -8
Then why do you post your name rather than the thrall's name that gathers the information for "View in the Dark" ? Hmmm? It is really quite simple: I am responsible for the information my thralls collect. If there are any discrepancies, one can take it up with me personally rather than waste their time with a mindless servant. No such situation has ever arisen, and I hope it does not -- ever -- but it is insurance for the masses nonetheless. Also, your remark does not apply all the time, as I do find things myself....
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seyda
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Posts: 844
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Post by seyda on Aug 17, 2009 15:11:57 GMT -8
It is not greed that prevents vampires from undertaking the tasks mentioned; it is pure laziness or a lack of proper knowledge. Either they do not want to, or they are incapable of doing so. Or, they want what others have; knowledge and power...which you know, equals greed. But you know, even if I participated in this ridiculous case of semantics and substitute greed with laziness, my point still stands. They want something, and they don't want to work for it. As far as those lacking the knowledge, in most instances the areas of the city that provide the lists are also the areas that provide this knowledge. That renders your point rather moot. And this makes my statement invalid how exactly? Someone who is not fully powered can flop their ass into a pub and buy drinks just the same as they could ask a human. Efficiency is not the point being made. The fact that all of those things can be done by the vampire themselves is. Or is someone such as you, with your years in the City, denying that a vampire can indeed do all of these things solo? Having a thrall collect shop or guild locations for someone else is just as bad as wanting the locations for yourself. Do the young vampires simply expect everything to be handed to them? They should do the work themselves, because in getting such help they are only cheating themselves. Yes, you're making it THIS easy. Sweetie baby...I invented this game, and I do it with much more finesse than you. Please proceed to the nearest hose, spread your legs, and commence to rinsing the sand out of your vagina. Uh, the rule that you're referencing is that thralls should not act in concert, not that you should not pass coins directly to yourself *. So, perhaps you should put some sunglasses on, because I think the glare is making you start to see things. You only want to have a grey area because that's the only way you're not a hypocrite. Now, I can almost see the angst in your words as you pound away on the keyboard, probably wiping away a tear, as you try to protect your stance of being a hypocritical jackass. Unfortunately, you're failing. Why? Because as much as you're trying to act like you don't care and try to duplicate a gimmick that I practically invented, instead you're simply left wanting. Try again, Sport. *((From Game FAQ "As a general rule, no - if several vampires belonging to the same person act in concert (eg. attacking the same target, collecting money for use by one main vampire or pooling their resources in any other way, being sired by the same vampire), I may delete any number of them."))
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◞◯◟
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IGN: upir
Posts: 759
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Post by ◞◯◟ on Aug 17, 2009 18:01:58 GMT -8
Good to see your mental abilities are slowly returning. I was almost afraid that you would miss certain things. Someone who is not fully powered can flop their ass into a pub and buy drinks just the same as they could ask a human. Efficiency is not the point being made. The fact that all of those things can be done by the vampire themselves is. Or is someone such as you, with your years in the City, denying that a vampire can indeed do all of these things solo? As a matter of fact, yes; I am. There are 25 shops -- are you saying that a single vampire can find every single one, in the 12-hour period before they move, without any aid from others? Yes, you're making it THIS easy. Sweetie baby...I invented this game, and I do it with much more finesse than you. Please proceed to the nearest hose, spread your legs, and commence to rinsing the sand out of your vagina. You are quite welcome. I had to do something to make you feel as though you had an edge. However, I appear to have underestimated your ego... what game, might I inquire, are you referencing? Perhaps you are foreshadowing what you write a bit later, in which case you may ignore that question. Uh, the rule that you're referencing is that thralls should not act in concert, not that you should not pass coins directly to yourself. It is the same thing, save the fact that my statement was more specific in regard to the original topic. Which we are beginning to deviate from.... You only want to have a grey area because that's the only way you're not a hypocrite. Now, I can almost see the angst in your words as you pound away on the keyboard, probably wiping away a tear, as you try to protect your stance of being a hypocritical jackass. Unfortunately, you're failing. Why? Because as much as you're trying to act like you don't care and try to duplicate a gimmick that I practically invented, instead you're simply left wanting. Try again, Sport. There will be a grey area no matter how hard you wish there was not. You cannot honestly believe that things only ever have two sides -- or perhaps you can. Keyboard... those are for computers, correct? Modern technology is a barrier I have yet to cross. Beginning here, the remainder of your reply is quite amusing and I do thank you for injecting some humor into your writings. Unfortunately you blatantly contradict yourself at one point, but I assume that is part of the joke. I am a bit confused on the last little bit, though, but this is likely a product of still not being at your "A-Game" so I forgive you. Obviously I must have a semblance of caring if I am taking time to reply to your comments, or -- on the other hand -- perhaps debate is simply entertainment for beings whom time has no meaning for. It seems superfluous to suggest that "not caring" is a "gimmick," and to further state that you "invented" said "gimmick." Even more so considering the fact that I do not admire you nearly enough to attempt to duplicate any of your actions, and do not know you well enough to even know what to duplicate in the first place. All in all, these are semi-nonsensical prattlings, and I believe we have strayed from the original topic far enough. Clearly there is little left to discuss; but do not worry, for you are free to contact me in any manner you deem fit. Once you are back to your old self again I would welcome any insults you would choose to hurl at my humble self.
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Acer Kygnosti
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Kygnosti Headpiece ((OOC: Veltrusen))
Posts: 50
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Post by Acer Kygnosti on Aug 17, 2009 18:24:48 GMT -8
Uhm... If you don't use computers then why are you here? This is infact a message board on the internet, Upir Hagakura. Unless you've found a mystical way to produce text on a message board on the internet, then I don't know how you could possibly be posting here. It makes no sense what-so-ever.
In any case, many of the thing you say have a ring of truth to them, but they don't ring true across the board, so to speak. In that way, they also have an arrogance which comes with the ignorance of unlife that you appear to possess.
On to the subject: passing coins from one person to another, not even considering thralls, is not always black and white. This childe may have screwed up and went to a Celerity Pub with no coins, and may be out of energy by their arrival with only enough strength left to buy their drinks. Are you saying that they shouldn't be passed a coin so they can buy the beer they need?
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Post by Do Not PM this Account. on Aug 17, 2009 18:32:52 GMT -8
(It's both an online news forum and a newspaper, Velty. Two mediums.)
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Boomerangele
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Pleasurably Pink[C01:white]
Posts: 593
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Post by Boomerangele on Aug 17, 2009 23:51:48 GMT -8
Some of you seem to have forgotten that neutrals cannot pass coin. They can accept coin but not give coin. Anyway, thought I'd just remind you.
As a former sobZ member and a current member of LLCB I can tell you those guilds and shops are all thrall generated. Not all thralls are used for personal greed. In fact, if we know of or are made aware of a charisma quest, we'll prolly use a thrall to help that vampire since we'll have a thrall in the pub anyway.
If you have ever run thralls for guilds you would know that the best finders are not fully-powered. The best ones have minimal to no powers. They get the info quicker.
I'm not sure that knowledge + power always = greed, but that's a different topic.
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Post by unicorndream on Aug 18, 2009 1:26:14 GMT -8
Good god I can't believe this conversation is still being had. This topic has gone around in circles so many times over the years my head spins just thinking about it.
At the end of the day there are city laws. Follow them or don't. If you don't like the rules then keep it to yourself and take a hike instead of screaming around in public like a dick (note: you in general not singular). One thing I have noticed through the years though, is that the biggest screamers normally have the most servants doing their bidding.
UnicornDream Just is...
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seyda
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Posts: 844
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Post by seyda on Aug 18, 2009 3:48:27 GMT -8
*snickers* You fail so nicely.
Does a single vampire need every single one of them? No. If you want weapons, you get a discount shop. If you want blood, you find a potion shop. The rest of the shops are rather overpriced and rather irrelevant. If a vampire wants a listing of every shop in the city, whether they plan to purchase said item or not, would be a nice definition of informational greed, would it not? Nevermind, don't answer that. You'll just say no and make you look even more foolish.
*laughs* Epic fail. In the future, perhaps you should make sure you've actually proven your point before you resort to using half baked insults as a redirection technique. Maybe then you wouldn't have 20+ vampires laughing at you in private the more you flap your yapper at me.
Wow, I'm beginning to realize that you really are that dense. So, allow me to make this easier.
Run Thrall Coin = Concert Run Thrall Shop = Concert Run Thrall Guild = Concert
So, yes, it is all the same thing. You said so yourself. At least you finally agree. BTW, I find it funny that once you get proved wrong, you declare that it's all off topic. You had no issue being off topic when you thought in your 70ish IQ head of yours that you had actually 'learned' me.
To loosely quote what O said here earlier, you either condone thrall use but object to mass abuse (like automated GPS systems running around hundreds of thralls with someone running around and changing the ID bracelets on folks as they go) or you object to it. You cannot say it's okay for one type of use and it's not okay for another. That is the what hypocrisy IS.
You can sit and talk until you're blue in the face that coin thralling is a horrible thing because it gives an unfair advantage, but so does providing a guild location. By providing someone a guild location using a thrall that they could be getting themselves, you are saving them months and in some cases, years of time. Thus, they are able to gain coin for themselves in a much quicker fashion, thus doing something similar to what you are so vehemently against. Do you understand that, or do I need to get someone to translate?
Or you're just nuts. Since, yanno. I'm sitting here, in the comfort of my Bath House, with my hot wife laying next to me, typing on a laptop in my bed.
Oh man. Do I need to point you in the direction of a water hose? Anyone who takes THAT much time to say 'No I'm not' is merely trying to spin a web of their own design. A guilty conscience is it's own accuser, yanno.
You started off as Mr. Morality. I contest that and you turn into Mr. Elitist I Know I'm Right. I counter that and you turn into Mr. Waah We're Off Topic. You're nothing more than a whiny little bitch, and I wish to thank you for giving me and mine hours worth of entertainment. If you really wish to continue, be my guest. I'm sure they'd love another night of laughing at you.
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seyda
New Member
Posts: 844
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Post by seyda on Aug 18, 2009 3:51:19 GMT -8
Uhm... If you don't use computers then why are you here? This is infact a message board on the internet, Upir Hagakura. Unless you've found a mystical way to produce text on a message board on the internet, then I don't know how you could possibly be posting here. It makes no sense what-so-ever. In any case, many of the thing you say have a ring of truth to them, but they don't ring true across the board, so to speak. In that way, they also have an arrogance which comes with the ignorance of unlife that you appear to possess. On to the subject: passing coins from one person to another, not even considering thralls, is not always black and white. This childe may have screwed up and went to a Celerity Pub with no coins, and may be out of energy by their arrival with only enough strength left to buy their drinks. Are you saying that they shouldn't be passed a coin so they can buy the beer they need? Well, I think that if I had one stranded, and I showed up and dumped coin on them, there wouldn't be an issue, right? If I send one of my employees in stead, then that would eliminate me from being able to ever help said vampire out myself, yes?
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seyda
New Member
Posts: 844
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Post by seyda on Aug 18, 2009 4:01:43 GMT -8
Some of you seem to have forgotten that neutrals cannot pass coin. They can accept coin but not give coin. Anyway, thought I'd just remind you. As a former sobZ member and a current member of LLCB I can tell you those guilds and shops are all thrall generated. Not all thralls are used for personal greed. In fact, if we know of or are made aware of a charisma quest, we'll prolly use a thrall to help that vampire since we'll have a thrall in the pub anyway. If you have ever run thralls for guilds you would know that the best finders are not fully-powered. The best ones have minimal to no powers. They get the info quicker. I'm not sure that knowledge + power always = greed, but that's a different topic. I'm aware of the hunting set up; I used to pinch hit on the sobZ myself when I had several members clanned with me and they'd go on vacation. It's a bitch of a job and I completely hated it, but it did give me an appreciation for those who do it willingly. I'm also not saying that all thralls are used for personal greed. My entire point is to make it clear that thralls for ANY purpose can be used for several different reasons, but that they all COULD be used for greed. So the stance that all thralls used for mapping aren't for greed, but all thralls used for coin gathering are, is just simply short sighted and totally incorrect. If Slappy McSlapperson would have spent more time focusing on that rather than trying to play the moral majority and then redirect his wrongness by claiming grey area and full tilt elitism, he just might not be missing a large portion of his ass this morning. *shrug* I'm also fully aware that fully powered vampires cannot get much on the guild draw. But, those fully powered vampires also don't need the guild draws. The ones who need them are the ones who aren't fully powered, who would thus be able to get them when they want them. And them having the ability to get the information themselves was my entire point.
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