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Oct 19, 2009 7:27:51 GMT -8
Post by nitenurse on Oct 19, 2009 7:27:51 GMT -8
and it is a surprise that there is an inbalance of power? That is reality in this city, in this world and it's not anything new. The names and faces have changed, certainly, but the idea that a few clans have more (weapons/ members/ coin, etc) than others isn't.
Those perceived to be the top are not going to do something stupid just to entertain the city. If you are bored, so sorry. I heard there was a fun poetry reading at Damari's Cafe. I'm sure there are other entertainment venues as well.
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Oct 19, 2009 8:04:24 GMT -8
Post by ladypeacek on Oct 19, 2009 8:04:24 GMT -8
I see what he is saying, completely. I mean, at this stage of the game, no one will be able to manage catching up to the major clans. They have been stockpiling and sitting on resources while building them for years, so even if a clan happened to come along with the discipline to do the same, they wont catch up.
For most, good clans anyways, it doesn't matter if they win or lose, if they fought good and hard...you give them that respect for doing so. However, for those that go into a fight knowing without a single doubt that they will be massacred without the other side even breaking a sweat, then you call them stupid. (cuz theyd be dead before they even had a chance to prove they could fight well)
Most like to go in knowing, even if they lose, they got enough umph to at least make a dent, so at least someone knew they were there. Fact is, no one can really do that with the major clan alliance here. No one. Even if all these little clans got together...we all know the resources still wouldnt match that of the alliance, even if the numbers did - barely. And maybe thats their own fault, maybe not...its not really the point. The point is that this is where the city is.
So what does that mean for the city? It means unless some miracle comes along and a drastic change happens, nothing will change and everyone will sit about nit picking at one another while being scoffed at by these big old elders sitting pretty on thier hunks of gold and weapons. And can't really blame the new clans for their lack of discipline, or lack of funds, because if they have any sense at all, they know gaining those things wont make an ounce of difference at this point. What you see now is them trying to mildly entertain themselves best they can with what they got.
So for those clans sitting pretty in power right now- what the hell are you waiting for? Maybe you just dont care about a war, that's reasonable, but how long before it gets tedious just sitting around laughing at and/or lecturing all those out of your fold? And once it does, then what? You can bugger off or you can just wipe them all out- either way, it's a death sentence for the city.
Though I am not above admitting that maybe that big ole alliance has some crazy hellish fun behind their closed doors without the rest of the city- but I can also admit that might be the same for those undisciplined clans too- only individually can one decide if they are doing what they want to do, rather than what others think they should be doing. Cuz in the end- who cares if they cant win a war if they are having a blast broke. It is possible that not everyone believes that the only way to be happy is to be in power...and power isnt always about coin and war...sometimes it can be much simpler.
I think the only way to fix this stagnant situation is to focus on something other than war, because even war can be tedious after a few weeks...trust me. Gotta have something more or eventually, even if power shifted, things would go back to being boring.
If you are bored- fix it, only you can. If the only thing that would make you happy is tearing down that alliance in power- you got your work cut out for ya- good luck in that...but I'd recommend a new hobby.
(my reference to game was completely IC- as in the game of life- not as in this game. K Thx)[a href="http://[del:ladypeacek]"]http://[del:ladypeacek][/a]
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seyda
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Oct 19, 2009 9:52:05 GMT -8
Post by seyda on Oct 19, 2009 9:52:05 GMT -8
And yet, people within some of these considered top tier clans wouldn't know jack shit about discipline if it bit them on the ass and ripped out a chunk. Nor would some considered top tier people, they just happen to have gotten lucky, or known the right people, or both. But thank you, Seyda for your positively meaningful and clearly well thought opinion. Just to clarify, since the man says you misunderstood his point, and you're not him, so obviously you know fuck all what his point actually was. When he says you missed his point, I think you missed his point. Well, aren't you an angry little bottom feeder...
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seyda
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Oct 19, 2009 9:57:42 GMT -8
Post by seyda on Oct 19, 2009 9:57:42 GMT -8
Um...deciding factors = intangibles. Not quite... As for the rest, since all you really did was elaborate on your previous statement, I'll reply in the same fashion. You missed the point I was trying to make completely... again. Like peacek said; my point had nothing to do with WHY top tier clans are on top. Even if it did, discipline has not been the only deciding factor. Granted, it is necessary, no one argues that. But there are many more factors in play. But again enough about that. What I was trying to bring attention to is the fact that the there's no longer balance in this town. No balance of power. The power has been in the hands of the big factions (who we all know are allied) for to long now, and they're doing nothing with it. I mean sure, some point, some criticize, some laugh; but other then that, they're just sitting on it. Mean while the rest of the factions refuse to agree with each other long enough to make an impact. Instead they go at it every chance they get. Which kind of gives you new found respect for the little guys, I mean at least they're doing something. People comment all the time on things being boring, stagnant. This is the reason. No one with enough leverage is doing anything. There's no cycle, no motion, no shift. And the city's been suffering because of it. The city need's a make over. If it doesn't get it soon I'm sure the the graveyards will over populate before we know it. PS: Damari I don't think Lameth could have proved his point better had he tried. Point was proven before he made it. Every word you've ever said proves it... not that I keep track. You say so much its hard sometimes... mind numbing @_@ The irony is that everyone complained when the old balance of power took it for granted, abused it, and tried to force their own views onto everyone. Now everyone is complaining because we work our asses off, we know what we have, and we don't abuse it and try to force our views on everyone? It simply doesn't matter WHAT someone does when they have it. People are going to piss, moan, and complain regardless. This city needs to stop being so fucking bipolar. Sheesh.
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seyda
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Oct 19, 2009 10:04:14 GMT -8
Post by seyda on Oct 19, 2009 10:04:14 GMT -8
I see what he is saying, completely. I mean, at this stage of the game, no one will be able to manage catching up to the major clans. They have been stockpiling and sitting on resources while building them for years, so even if a clan happened to come along with the discipline to do the same, they wont catch up. For most, good clans anyways, it doesn't matter if they win or lose, if they fought good and hard...you give them that respect for doing so. However, for those that go into a fight knowing without a single doubt that they will be massacred without the other side even breaking a sweat, then you call them stupid. (cuz theyd be dead before they even had a chance to prove they could fight well) Most like to go in knowing, even if they lose, they got enough umph to at least make a dent, so at least someone knew they were there. Fact is, no one can really do that with the major clan alliance here. No one. Even if all these little clans got together...we all know the resources still wouldnt match that of the alliance, even if the numbers did - barely. And maybe thats their own fault, maybe not...its not really the point. The point is that this is where the city is. So what does that mean for the city? It means unless some miracle comes along and a drastic change happens, nothing will change and everyone will sit about nit picking at one another while being scoffed at by these big old elders sitting pretty on thier hunks of gold and weapons. And can't really blame the new clans for their lack of discipline, or lack of funds, because if they have any sense at all, they know gaining those things wont make an ounce of difference at this point. What you see now is them trying to mildly entertain themselves best they can with what they got. So for those clans sitting pretty in power right now- what the hell are you waiting for? Maybe you just dont care about a war, that's reasonable, but how long before it gets tedious just sitting around laughing at and/or lecturing all those out of your fold? And once it does, then what? You can bugger off or you can just wipe them all out- either way, it's a death sentence for the city. Though I am not above admitting that maybe that big ole alliance has some crazy hellish fun behind their closed doors without the rest of the city- but I can also admit that might be the same for those undisciplined clans too- only individually can one decide if they are doing what they want to do, rather than what others think they should be doing. Cuz in the end- who cares if they cant win a war if they are having a blast broke. It is possible that not everyone believes that the only way to be happy is to be in power...and power isnt always about coin and war...sometimes it can be much simpler. I think the only way to fix this stagnant situation is to focus on something other than war, because even war can be tedious after a few weeks...trust me. Gotta have something more or eventually, even if power shifted, things would go back to being boring. If you are bored- fix it, only you can. If the only thing that would make you happy is tearing down that alliance in power- you got your work cut out for ya- good luck in that...but I'd recommend a new hobby. (my reference to game was completely IC- as in the game of life- not as in this game. K Thx)[a href="http://[del:ladypeacek]"]http://[del:ladypeacek] [/a][/quote] It didn't seem to bother you when you were part of the Unholy, Pea.
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asmia
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Balance
Oct 19, 2009 10:22:25 GMT -8
Post by asmia on Oct 19, 2009 10:22:25 GMT -8
Not that I'm going to complain at the perceived imbalance of our beloved world...
But remember kindly, where there is a will, there is a way. That, and nothing lasts forever.
Wisdom seems to be the thing that most 2nds and beyond also seem to have a lack of.
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Oct 19, 2009 10:24:39 GMT -8
Post by Pulse St. John on Oct 19, 2009 10:24:39 GMT -8
Feng Shui peeps.. Keep the balance!
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Balance
Oct 19, 2009 11:21:48 GMT -8
Post by black_dragonet on Oct 19, 2009 11:21:48 GMT -8
I would like to add that Ferry was a Tier 1 clan, until they wasted their money and blood in a stupid and unnecessary fight. There are a few clans who know when to fight, and when not to. They have more discipline, and more important, more strategic thinking than other clans, which explains why they worked their asses off and got money and power, peparing for the moment when it could be needed rather then flex muscles and make pissing contests.
I know that if others worked as hard as we do, they could get to the same results. To do that, they would need to keep their tempers in check, let go when assholes try to slander them, and bid their time, until they can squish the stupid people in one mighty and spectacular swat. That also takes work, building such an atmosphere when people are pushed to their limit. It takes consistency, regularity, and atually lots of humility: there can be only one clan leader, and one talker at a time, even when we all wish we were talking leaders.
The reason why tier two clans fail to rise in power has nothing to see with some other clans dominating the city, for they do not misuse their power and try to impose anything to anyone, as others did before. The reason why they fail to rise, is because they decide to waste their resources and energy on useless and quickly gone glory. I often use Clan L'inconnu as an example, because it's just what it is: a damn fine example.
This clan is full of demon fighters, could have been great, and almost was. They did one major mistake: back a clan in a fight that was not theirs. They prove how good they are, at a cost: their blood and money. Depleted, they became an easy prey for anyone in search of some fame. Strategically, it was stupid to enter that war, without making sure they would be backed by Ferry in case of a subsequent attack on them. L'inconnu leaders decided to enter that war, and they didn't negotiate adequate counterpart. Now see where they are... With proper leadership and strategic thinking, they could have made it to tier one...
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Oct 19, 2009 11:49:46 GMT -8
Post by Lestat de Lioncourt on Oct 19, 2009 11:49:46 GMT -8
Those who don't know, shouldn't speak.
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Oct 19, 2009 15:46:38 GMT -8
Post by ladypeacek on Oct 19, 2009 15:46:38 GMT -8
It didn't seem to bother you when you were part of the Unholy, Pea. You are right, I enjoyed it for a week or two, but can't blame me, I was a brand spankin noob leader without a clue slapped right into leadership in an already formed big strong alliance. WOOT! It took all of a few weeks before I was bitching about how much it really sucked. Who do you think pushed Jean into pulling us out? And any number of leaders that were there while I led Ferry can tell you, after UnHoly and dealing with Lilac for the week or two we had her around- I barely entertained the idea of an alliance ever again much less wanted one.
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seyda
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Oct 19, 2009 16:13:22 GMT -8
Post by seyda on Oct 19, 2009 16:13:22 GMT -8
Well, thanks for admitting that you didn't have the sack to do it yourself. My god. It took you HOW long? And considering that when you took over as a brand spankin new leader we were in the middle of replenishing supplies because we had just killed shit, either your timeline is a tiny bit off or you just have a shitty case of ADD. *shrug* Whatev.
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Balance
Oct 19, 2009 16:23:08 GMT -8
Post by ophelia Lokason on Oct 19, 2009 16:23:08 GMT -8
Ignorance is not an excuse.
Having said that, there is an imbalance simply because there are a few large clans and many small ones. As well, it's not imbalanced necessarily because of power, but rather the willingness of vampires to work together for a common goal, whatever that may be. The thing to remember, when one thinks about it is that most clans ALL start out small. With hard work, perseverance, determination and smart choices they too can grow bigger and stronger.
And let's face it (I know this is probably not at all-the entire comment-the proper interpretation of this initial post but....) if the larger clans were to start slapping around the smaller clans, they would be labeled bullies. Elitist m'fers that are trying to impose their will on the poor weak unsuspecting masses. And if they choose to bide their time, pick their fights and grow internally, they're lazy sods sitting on resources and not giving the little guys a chance by using their growing resources on them. It really is a loose loose situation unless you're the smaller group in question.
There will always be an imbalance of 'power' as some choose to call it, in the city. It's the way it has always been. And frankly, anyone that thinks there is not nor will ever be a group out there more resourceful, able to grow stronger and smack the shit out of other bigger groups is, quite simply, stupid.
~HiS~
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Balance
Oct 19, 2009 16:42:11 GMT -8
Post by ladypeacek on Oct 19, 2009 16:42:11 GMT -8
Well, thanks for admitting that you didn't have the sack to do it yourself. My god. It took you HOW long? And considering that when you took over as a brand spankin new leader we were in the middle of replenishing supplies because we had just killed shit, either your timeline is a tiny bit off or you just have a shitty case of ADD. *shrug* Whatev. The sack to do it myself? Guess that just means you had no idea how they worked the council back then. Being new on the council and Jean in control- wasn't my place to make the announcement. *shrugs* Not sure what the replenishing supplies thing has to do with the UnHoly alliance- two totally different times in the city- but whatev. I do recall the UnHoly was never in a war that caused them to break a sweat...so mebbe you replenished the change you spent killing shit, but nothing major.
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seyda
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Oct 19, 2009 16:51:27 GMT -8
Post by seyda on Oct 19, 2009 16:51:27 GMT -8
Were never in a war that caused us to break a sweat? Guess that just means you had no idea who was packing what and how, or really anything substantial I guess. *shrug*
But Pea, honestly, you may not realize this, but you were the best thing that ever happened to us. You handed us the shot in the arm we needed in a formative time to get over the hump. Because, at least white and rel weren't stupid enough to mismanage most of their heavy hitters out the door.
So, with that said, I want to thank you for Damari.
And for Rodargo.
And melanctha.
And Senaiya.
We really couldn't have become the entity that everyone wants to complain about today without you. And I honestly and truly mean that. But, I know you didn't do it alone, so please send the whore my thanks as well.
I owe you one, Pea. Thank you.
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Damari
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Oct 19, 2009 20:16:20 GMT -8
Post by Damari on Oct 19, 2009 20:16:20 GMT -8
NAaawww someone remembers me. Doesn't always happen. I get conveniently written out of some history books.
Back to the topic folks.
I've been in the unenviable position of being in an underdog clan and a not so underdog clan. Being on top is better.
You get more money for shoes.
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