seyda
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Balance
Oct 24, 2009 13:43:59 GMT -8
Post by seyda on Oct 24, 2009 13:43:59 GMT -8
The D'darys left in November 2006....Sartori felt he was disrespected by Ferrymen leadership for not being acknowledged for his part in creating the Alliance with SiE/RoR/Ferrymen. And his basis for this was from a conversation that took place between On-da-g and Hesu (two individuals not part of the Ferrymen at the time of this conversation)....where On-da-g said her son was the reason behind the Alliance forming, and Hesu stating he was not. That's right, it WAS On...Vella lost her mind after that. My bad.
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Balance
Oct 24, 2009 14:53:42 GMT -8
Post by vermathraxrex on Oct 24, 2009 14:53:42 GMT -8
Well, Dragon, we could talk about your empire...or your plans to take down one. Or is that not general enough? Excuse me? You obviously have me confused with someone who gives a shit about clans and such. Update your files, Seydakins.
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Balance
Oct 24, 2009 16:50:42 GMT -8
Post by nitenurse on Oct 24, 2009 16:50:42 GMT -8
As was demonstrated recently, not all military efforts are centered in a clan. A bloodline's ability to fight together for a common cause is as respected as a clans. Some 'empires' are formed by allied clans... others by a family...
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Balance
Oct 24, 2009 19:31:36 GMT -8
Post by vermathraxrex on Oct 24, 2009 19:31:36 GMT -8
As was demonstrated recently, not all military efforts are centered in a clan. A bloodline's ability to fight together for a common cause is as respected as a clans. Some 'empires' are formed by allied clans... others by a family... *reads her words carefully several times and compares to certain situations closer to home* You guys really don't do your homework, do you?
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Henry Key
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I lost the Game[C01:FFFFFF]
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Oct 24, 2009 22:34:40 GMT -8
Post by Henry Key on Oct 24, 2009 22:34:40 GMT -8
this thread is now about cheese DOES NO ONE LISTEN I said this thread was about cheese, get on topic dammit!
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seyda
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Oct 25, 2009 4:44:34 GMT -8
Post by seyda on Oct 25, 2009 4:44:34 GMT -8
Well, Dragon, we could talk about your empire...or your plans to take down one. Or is that not general enough? Excuse me? You obviously have me confused with someone who gives a shit about clans and such. Update your files, Seydakins. Oh yeah, I forgot, it's just me. I apologize for adding my own level of feasibility to it for you.
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seyda
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Posts: 844
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Balance
Oct 25, 2009 4:46:48 GMT -8
Post by seyda on Oct 25, 2009 4:46:48 GMT -8
As was demonstrated recently, not all military efforts are centered in a clan. A bloodline's ability to fight together for a common cause is as respected as a clans. Some 'empires' are formed by allied clans... others by a family... *reads her words carefully several times and compares to certain situations closer to home* You guys really don't do your homework, do you? *smiles* We neeeever do our homework.
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Balance
Oct 25, 2009 7:22:58 GMT -8
Post by vermathraxrex on Oct 25, 2009 7:22:58 GMT -8
Thought not or else none of your words towards me would even have been said
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Balance
Oct 25, 2009 10:24:51 GMT -8
Post by ladypeacek on Oct 25, 2009 10:24:51 GMT -8
Ummm *eyes Rodargo* While I certainly don't remember p being referred to by alliance leaders when she was in the Corridor. I do remember coming back from my ~Silence, being thrown in as Lanistra to faciliate communication because The Ferrymen Leadership a) probably had no idea what to do with me and b) weren't around much. At THAT point I saw that not much was going on by way of active, interested leadership and the upper ranks were filled with bored ancients who weren't putting in the time to see the clan grow and develop. Let me see at that point they'd kicked out two leaders, namely Amaranthe & Juddin and they'd managed to alienate at that point all the D'dary that had come for whatever reason (which may have had grounds for some reasons beyond my understanding since I was silent at the time) And then p took over. At least she was around. Can't say the same for Jean, Rod or Vella at that time. Long stretches where no one could get in touch with any of them for any reason. P back when there was meant to be a Stygian was running shit on her own. Then she made the horrendous mistake of seeing Cerridwen's point over mine. I was right to tell her Vella needed to go because she was rotting at the top and making bad decisions. I was also right at the time to tell her Jean also needed to go because love him to bits, he was doing nothing at the top. Lots and lots of absolutely nothing. And I was doubly right to tell her Cerridwen needed to go. I remember when The Ferrymen were a part of the alliance. We were the ugly, poor step cousin to the more well oiled machines of the other clans. Less leadership, less active membership and quite frankly I talked to Hesu & Seyda more than my leaders did and if you know me you'll know how telling that is. It''s why me and Seydee over there are such good buddies. From the very beginning there was always something fundamentally wrong with how The Ferrymen were run. Even way back as Lucius when I first joined that clan. Maybe it was their reputation that kept them going. I don' t know. But for a while there I had hopes that The Ferrymen would gain back a portion of their reputation when Ravana took them on, but even he fell by the wayside of apathy. Maybe that's real Ferrymen Legacy. If you stay there. You'll eventually die and leave the city. God I do go on. *sighs* Ladyp.... you should never have kicked me out. That, darling was a mistake on your part. But to be honest, it was my saving grace. If you hadn't made the choice to do it. I would probably already be dead and buried by now. I have found by comparison to The Ferrymen a clan that is well run, with interested active and giving leaders who, while they don't always agree with who I am, suck up a great dose of my shit and give me space to be me. It is an pleasure to be in RoR. It is now, home. It was something I have found for the first time in this city. You BIGGEST fucking mistake back then, was letting me get kicked out Thank you. At least someone saw what I saw...a nearly extinct clan that was anything but a well oiled machine. And I have said through every moment of my time in leadership that I had made some doozy mistakes. But regardless of those mistakes, I did keep that clan active and going for years...and for me, considering I started as a leader that knew nothing about leading...it was an achievement. And I have no doubt that the leaders there now will continue to improve that and make it stronger and better.
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Balance
Oct 28, 2009 16:56:19 GMT -8
Post by Jean DeVenn on Oct 28, 2009 16:56:19 GMT -8
Allow me to bring this discussion back on topic.
I'm not going to discuss the history of the Ferrymen; many good things happened, many mistakes were made, and everyone who was involved has their own understanding of what happened. Past history and done.
In terms of the imbalance of power in the city, there have always been alliances which have been dominant. Even when it has been quoted as one clan, it was in fact that clan and a significant number of allies. Over time, that dominant power block has changed. Occasionally (and as far as I can see only back in the mists of time) it was by pure force. But most often, it was because the dominant alliance fell apart, with the factions bringing in a few new partners. The cards were shuffled, and fell into a new pattern with one or two cards rejected but the majority staying the same.
Another factor is that a number of the leaders of whichever alliance is in power were key players from the previous alliance. A few additional leaders would come into this "inner clique" with each reshuffle, and most would generally survive a few changes of the top tier before boredom took them. The only one I can think of (off the top of my head) who has always been on the winning team is ophelia, which says a lot for her ability to read the situation.
So the only way the power dominating the city will change is through an internal disagreement, followed by things settling back pretty much the way they were with just a few minor changes.
That leaves the second tier clans free to play with each other. If they avoid being stupid enough to prod the top tier, they won't get any trouble from them. So these second tier clans can squabble among themselves to their hearts' content.
It seems to me that the newer vampires, however fierce and enthusiastic, in many cases lack both discipline and commitment. They seem to find it easy to change both families and clans at the drop of a hat. Through indiscipline, they break clan rules, and then when picked up on it, they don't learn the lesson they just throw a paddy and leave for some other clan (or try to form their own, thinking they know it all). Thus, these second tier clans lack a solid base of members, and this in turn means that new leaders aren't trained.
I doubt this situation will change in the forseeable future. It just saddens me a little that the really great themes and causes, the moral differences between clans, have died away. When was the last time that a clan publicly announced it was "good" ? It's been replaced by a sleeping upper tier, and a second tier that are no better than human street-gangs.
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Balance
Oct 28, 2009 17:46:29 GMT -8
Post by ophelia Lokason on Oct 28, 2009 17:46:29 GMT -8
I've always found it strange that people insinuate that the errr...'upper tier' is sleeping. First of all, upper tier is relative. In the eye of the beholder so to speak. Secondly, those in this so called upper tier are not dancing monkies that should throw themselves about just for the sheer entertainment of others. Work hard. Play hard. Be smart.
They aren't sleeping.
They just aren't stupid.
~HiS~
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vamps
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Oct 28, 2009 19:12:09 GMT -8
Post by vamps on Oct 28, 2009 19:12:09 GMT -8
It seems to me that the newer vampires, however fierce and enthusiastic, in many cases lack both discipline and commitment. They seem to find it easy to change both families and clans at the drop of a hat. Through indiscipline, they break clan rules, and then when picked up on it, they don't learn the lesson they just throw a paddy and leave for some other clan (or try to form their own, thinking they know it all). Thus, these second tier clans lack a solid base of members, and this in turn means that new leaders aren't trained. I agree wholeheartedly with this. It's likewise apparent that these same younger vampires, brash as they seem to be, so often are the most vocal in the public eye. The portion of younger 'pires who have their stuff together seem to often be in structured environments, and have both the good sense to not publicly shoot their mouth off at most every little thing as well as positive role-models to guide in their development. Secondly, those in this so called upper tier are not dancing monkies that should throw themselves about just for the sheer entertainment of others. Work hard. Play hard. Be smart. They aren't sleeping. They just aren't stupid. ~HiS~ This statement positively glares with truth. One might think common sense would lead most any 'pire to understand it to be a given. Then again, it's now a given that most any 'pire no longer possesses much common sense. I find it ironic that the same antics of the undisciplined, brash, know-it-alls that induce such humor, likewise induce a certain degree of sadness due to both their increasing number, and the lack of younger quality 'pires becoming qualified to properly carry on the good-fight in the future. (edited a typo)
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Damia
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Oct 28, 2009 19:24:43 GMT -8
Post by Damia on Oct 28, 2009 19:24:43 GMT -8
Aside from the Ferrymen arguments popping up. I quite like Riens side of our discussion just as I quite agree with Ophelia, Jean and Vamps.
As well at the risk of derailing this discussion, may I say a welcome to the bite to Jean.
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Henry Key
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Balance
Oct 28, 2009 21:46:34 GMT -8
Post by Henry Key on Oct 28, 2009 21:46:34 GMT -8
I like Swiss Cheese.
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Damari
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Oct 29, 2009 1:51:00 GMT -8
Post by Damari on Oct 29, 2009 1:51:00 GMT -8
Allow me to bring this discussion back on topic. I have missed you Jean. You're definitely not non grata for this persona..
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