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Post by jim on Dec 2, 2009 13:43:08 GMT -8
Zach, I do not care what people were doing in the seventeen and eighteen hundreds. That is absolutely uncalled for. I'll make everyone a deal. If you can find one instance where the exact swastika used by Nazi Germany (currently used by Meph as his avatar) was used by any other culture anywhere to denote something other than the current misconception of its meaning, I'll delete all of my posts and remove myself from the forum. |
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Post by black_dragonet on Dec 2, 2009 13:45:00 GMT -8
I am quite uneasy with this clan stuff, but if it's played correctly, it's no more offensive than Meph's Svastika/tetragammadion.
Hell, there probably are some vampires played as being racists.
Zach, just please don't make it go over the border of decency and IC credibility. Keep it soft, and there's no real reason for anyone to feel anything beyond unease.
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Post by Kunna Drakonis on Dec 2, 2009 13:51:30 GMT -8
It has nothing to do with the Swastika.
Infact, I had an issue with the quote beneath your avatar...and then of course your need to have your character create it's own KK'C' er w/e.
As I've said before to Sirena, images used on forums and such are created for OOC purposes. To create artwork that coincides with the RolePlay that is supposed to be strictly IC.
When you look at a banner to a character, your character doesn't go around saying, "Oh, I love so and so's banner. It's so pretty." No, the banner is OOC, the image is OOC. RP'd out, the image would be called "Their outfit or perhaps that person's hair style or make up or piercings."
The images you in your group are using is offending OOC sensibilities. These images are -not- IC as the characters do not interact with avatars or banners. To RP these images out, having the character portray the images into words is IC and is less offensive considering we -don't- have to read it. We do though have to see these images if they are put up.
Also, as I told Sirena, what if someone were to come onto the forum and notice all the OOC images of racism and religious hate? They'd easily connect the images to RavenBlack and the game, and guess who might get in trouble?
RavenBlack.
Who's game might get deleted?
RavenBlack's.
Who's gonna be a sorry lot if that happens?
Those that support this.
Again...IMO.
Edit: Spelling error.
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Jair
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Post by Jair on Dec 2, 2009 13:52:10 GMT -8
I'm not simply at unease, I'm offended.
How is that not going over the border of decency? You know he's doing it to be a jackass, so that's past the borderline of separation.
Zach, I am pretty sure we're all mature enough to know that the swastika isn't just a Nazi symbol. It wasn't the entire point.
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hairbear
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Post by hairbear on Dec 2, 2009 13:53:46 GMT -8
Zach, I do not care what people were doing in the seventeen and eighteen hundreds. That is absolutely uncalled for. I'll make everyone a deal. If you can find one instance where the exact swastika used by Nazi Germany (currently used by Meph as his avatar) was used by any other culture anywhere to denote something other than the current misconception of its meaning, I'll delete all of my posts and remove myself from the forum. I think Zach has made his point very clear. Meph's avatar is no more/less inflamatory than his avatar and clan posting. |
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Post by jim on Dec 2, 2009 13:55:46 GMT -8
As I've said before to Sirena, images used on forums and such are created for OOC purposes. To create artwork that coincides with the RolePlay that is supposed to be strictly IC. That's my point. |
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Post by Damiana Jones on Dec 2, 2009 13:56:04 GMT -8
...Honestly, it's really upsetting to see this is being accepted because Meph gets to keep his Swastika because he put up the argument of the swastika means something totally different than it did when Hitler used it. And that he can swing it well IC because vampires supposedly aren't suppose to get offended by it. And because of that -I- have to endure coming to a board where someone has an avatar of a KKK member holding a noose with the words," What?! People were hanging blacks long before racists were." And gets to make a thread IC with -obvious- racist undertones.
All for the sake of Roleplay.
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Post by jim on Dec 2, 2009 13:57:30 GMT -8
Zach, I am pretty sure we're all mature enough to know that the swastika isn't just a Nazi symbol. It wasn't the entire point. You're a blind optimist. |
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Post by Kunna Drakonis on Dec 2, 2009 14:00:16 GMT -8
As I've said before to Sirena, images used on forums and such are created for OOC purposes. To create artwork that coincides with the RolePlay that is supposed to be strictly IC. That's my point. I understand that, but not if said OOC artwork is offensive to the player. People get banned for less. As Dee just said, Meph's portrayal is being done in a less then tastefully way that has different meanings. You're just being straight up crass and blunt about how your character feels. Perhaps you could stifle that a bit? |
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Post by jim on Dec 2, 2009 14:07:02 GMT -8
I understand that, but not if said OOC artwork is offensive to the player. People get banned for less. As Dee just said, Meph's portrayal is being done in a less then tastefully way that has different meanings. You're just being straight up crass and blunt about how your character feels. Perhaps you could stifle that a bit? Since there is no "standard" of roleplay, that is, some people RP in the current time period with all human events having currently taken place, others RP in a magical realm with fairies; like Meph, I could argue that in my RP, the Klan (in the modern sense) never existed. So to take offense IC or OOC is thick. And to assume that I'm portraying the modern OOC Klan in my RP is also equally stupid. |
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hairbear
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Venimus Atque Infernum Nobiscum
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Post by hairbear on Dec 2, 2009 14:07:15 GMT -8
...Honestly, it's really upsetting to see this is being accepted because Meph gets to keep his Swastika because he put up the argument of the swastika means something totally different than it did when Hitler used it. And that he can swing it well IC because vampires supposedly aren't suppose to get offended by it. And because of that -I- have to endure coming to a board where someone has an avatar of a KKK member holding a noose with the words," What?! People were hanging blacks long before racists were." And gets to make a thread IC with -obvious- racist undertones. All for the sake of Roleplay. Honestly, I don't think any of this is about roleplay. It's about pushing buttons and getting reactions. Not accepted, endured Dee. If Meph's symbolism is acceptable to promote free speech, it goes to reason that Zach's should too. My grandmother was bi-racial and suffered greatly. I don't have explain to you what she went through being married to a white man in the 1930's. It falls within the idiom of what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Unfortunately, one insulting symbolism is not better/worse than the other. |
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Post by Kunna Drakonis on Dec 2, 2009 14:16:40 GMT -8
I understand that, but not if said OOC artwork is offensive to the player. People get banned for less. As Dee just said, Meph's portrayal is being done in a less then tastefully way that has different meanings. You're just being straight up crass and blunt about how your character feels. Perhaps you could stifle that a bit? Since there is no "standard" of roleplay, that is, some people RP in the current time period with all human events having currently taken place, others RP in a magical realm with fairies; like Meph, I could argue that in my RP, the Klan (in the modern sense) never existed. So to take offense IC or OOC is thick. And to assume that I'm portraying the modern OOC Klan in my RP is also equally stupid. Sure. I can take that into consideration. But note that I don't care if you RP Blut's racism. I don't care if he strings people of different cultures like christmas ornaments for his house. The RavenBlack Bite is in the realm of RolePlay that -everyone- is involved. By going with what you say, the images and the Clan advert Blut has created has been put in a public location for all in RBC to observe. Regardless of their preference to rainbows and unicorns to the nitty gritty of Blut's realm, those that partake of The Bite and the information offered there are equaled in knowledge. On top of all of this...IC and OOC. Separate. No part of the other. Apart. Disconnected. The characters, the RP, and the forum(unless marked otherwise) are not OOC. The images used to enhance the game are OOC. If the images are offensive to more then one person, then this issue should be taken into consideration. |
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Post by ladypeacek on Dec 2, 2009 14:22:16 GMT -8
I wasn't going to respond here, but seeing as I am being directly blamed for this whole fucking ordeal, I am.
Technically, any of it is legitimate forms of role play...and in doing so we open the doors to these type of things. There are TONS of things said and done IC by almost every person here that would offend me GREATLY if they were said or done to ME the player. You simply cant deny that...it is what it is.
Does it defy ToS...well I guess thats something that proboards has to decide- and if they decide it does, then I guess the free speech this forum portrays must be re-evaluated.
Zach was making a point (and having fun doing it), and while many of you can claim the swastika Meph used can be attributed to many different things, the one he uses...cannot be. Meph stated quite simply that he posted it to stir shit up, and he did. Now Zach is- argue and debate all you want about it, no one is saying that you've no right to be offended by it, or that you have to like it...but for fucks sake- understand that he is a grown adult and coming to scream at me for it will get you absolutely nowhere. I am not his mother.
My relationship with anyone, does not mean I control them, nor do I want to. In this instance, I don't see the harm in the post, I see it for what it was- Zach's 'in-your-face' form of making a point. Even had I been bothered by the post, it would in no way imply that I could or would attempt to control his actions.
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Post by Damiana Jones on Dec 2, 2009 14:22:43 GMT -8
I don't think either one of their damn symbolism should be accepted. I think it should actually matter that it offends people. I don't give a fuckin' shit that it can be justified IC. Yes. -I'm angry.- Kudos to Meph IC with still holding on to what the swastika used to mean. But Meph OOC needs to realize it -offends- people. It doesn't have to be put up as an avatar.
Zach's avatar and his thread -offends- me. It's racist. He can spin it all pretty all he likes, but it's -racist-. But because Meph gave forth an argument that makes it justified IC, I have to "endure" Zach antics.
Just a classic example how it takes one person for things to change.
So does that mean I could put up "God Hates Fags" as my avatar if I can justify it IC?
Thank you. Thank you for opening the door.
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Post by jim on Dec 2, 2009 14:24:40 GMT -8
Since there is no "standard" of roleplay, that is, some people RP in the current time period with all human events having currently taken place, others RP in a magical realm with fairies; like Meph, I could argue that in my RP, the Klan (in the modern sense) never existed. So to take offense IC or OOC is thick. And to assume that I'm portraying the modern OOC Klan in my RP is also equally stupid. Sure. I can take that into consideration. But note that I don't care if you RP Blut's racism. I don't care if he strings people of different cultures like christmas ornaments for his house. The RavenBlack Bite is in the realm of RolePlay that -everyone- is involved. By going with what you say, the images and the Clan advert Blut has created has been put in a public location for all in RBC to observe. Regardless of their preference to rainbows and unicorns to the nitty gritty of Blut's realm, those that partake of The Bite and the information offered there are equaled in knowledge. On top of all of this...IC and OOC. Separate. No part of the other. Apart. Disconnected. The characters, the RP, and the forum(unless marked otherwise) are not OOC. The images used to enhance the game are OOC. If the images are offensive to more then one person, then this issue should be taken into consideration. I DONT DISAGREE. I COMPLETELY AGREE with you. |
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