Moons
New Member
Posts: 863
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 20:33:12 GMT -8
Post by Moons on Nov 22, 2009 20:33:12 GMT -8
I'm not passing negative assumptions, I'm restating what was said very clearly. I think that it's good for people to own their choices and their words.
And, diversity is not an excuse for character to charcter information crossing. I'm sorry, but I'm a staunch old-fashioned RPer, and trying to validate crossing because someone in one's IC group, or an OOC friend does not, in any way, make me look to them with more respect.
I will however refer to you as ~M~ from now on.
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Damari
New Member
[C01:Yellow]
Posts: 1,410
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 20:38:28 GMT -8
Post by Damari on Nov 22, 2009 20:38:28 GMT -8
If I had the time.
I’d create a character to spy. I’d give him history, both IC and OOC and I would make him believable to him. Then I would send this character out into the world of RB and I would have him deliver information to Damari. Cause I’ve never done that before and I think it would be a challenge.
If a character was created for the sole purpose of passing information from one character to another character that’s not crossing.
It’s called a MOLE. The CIA has them, large corporate entities have them. It’s not crossing. I think those who are saying so are doing so just to be purposely obtuse to what a spy created character is for.
Two options for spies: 1. Do it with your main. How I put Damari into a situation is one way. 2. Do it with an alt. Creating a character in order to spy in another camp is another way. There is no real third way. Because lets face it. Telling the people in the clan you’re trying to spy and that you’re Puawai and this is an alt you created to spy on them and deliver information back is stupid.
Just plain stupid.
Real spies lie. In order to have a believable spy you have to lie. You have to keep lying and you have to be okay with lying. There is no ‘gentleman’s ooc rules of engagement’ honour in spying because the only way to go about it, IC and OOC is to lie to people, IC and OOC.
CBK’s human got trashed like a motherfucker because he was a spy. I remember Elizabeth having a go at him to me about how dishonourable and how a whole different ooc persona was created to support the lie of the spy.
So what? The integrity of the player is that they were willing to go to those lengths to ensure the stability of their spy. I saw it as a necessity. You can’t have it both ways. In order to spy you have to create believable and lasting relationships with the clan you’re in.
Hell, Damari nearly had Vidar ask her to bind to him they got that close. Do you know how sticky that is. I don’t think I lied to his human, but I certainly didn’t tell whole truths. Can you imagine how hurt he was ooc when he found out that the late nights we chatted while he was on duty at the police station was all a part of some diabolical In Game ruse? He used to talk about his wife and his job and we used to have great fun.
I did the same with Carpathia’s human. You lie because part of the skin you wear is to lie. You betray because spies betray.
Lying either way is a pretty sucky road, but being a spy means you make a decision to do it.
There is no real GOOD way to spy, but having a spy alt is a challenge. Just how far can you take it and the excitement stems from knowing, at any moment, you shit is up and then your house of cards falls to the ground.
I don’t think everyone can do it. I’m not sure if I’m equipped to do it now. I didn’t know anyone then, had very little experience in the city and didn’t have strong friend based ties to this game. That’s changed, so… beh, who knows.
Probably can’t anymore. Don’t know.
I think a GOOD spy is an awesome thing to behold. I’ve known a few that have never been caught. That had spies in place for years. They’re awesome because I understand the effort required to maintain it.
Now I don’t know if that helped. Maybe I just made current situation seem worse. But for me, being a spy isn’t a bad thing. I think it takes talent, commitment and balls of steel.
But that’s just me Puawai
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Ace Dumont
New Member
Tulip King[C01:FFCC00]
Posts: 263
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 20:42:43 GMT -8
Post by Ace Dumont on Nov 22, 2009 20:42:43 GMT -8
I have to say, the spying with your actual character is a helluva lot more intersting, and I still give props to Claire for doing it not too long ago with Kaelani. The storyline was great, the fallout and in-character drama was great, the whole thing was just entertaining as hell. And I would hope that can be said from both sides of the coin. Also I have to give major props to the other-IC-team for KEEPING it IC. That's the kind of game-play that is few and far between these days, and it was great to be a part of it. That said, I've never much liked the thralls-for-spies game myself. I just don't get it. And it's BECAUSE of that particular form of game-play, that other people cant have multiple characters anymore. It's a damned shame. But I've had this argument before. But you'll always have one camp rooting for the old ways (while bitching about them "omg you has another character it must be a spy!"), while the other camp roots for doing things with a lot less sneaky shit involved. Long as nobody's getting hurt (IE: harassed, insulted, etc), I really don't care what "everyone else" does. I'll stick to my camp and you stick to yours, and gosh willing we can all agree to disagree and attempt to get along.
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 20:48:08 GMT -8
Post by Majica on Nov 22, 2009 20:48:08 GMT -8
First of all, please. I sign my ooc posts as ~M~ for a reason. Respect that.
As for questions of crossing in reference to built spies, please refer to my original post here. I don't expect folks to agree with that stance, as diversity and difference is great, but don't please start casting negative assumptions at my human, one that very few actually get to hold ooc conversations with.
Thanks!
M I read your first post and sorry, I just don't understand what a built spy is. Not trying to be inflamatory or anything, but I just didn't get it?
There was a time Maji had spoken to Seyda about being a spy. It was during a time that surrounded something having to do with the Ferrymen and I don't recall the actual events nor do I wish to state more than that without looking at the actual archive. But I wouldn't ever dream of using a thrall/Alt or anyone else other than my main, Majica. I don't remember why it never came to be, but the situation would have been perfect since Maji's pretty trustworthy and no one would have suspected it or seen it coming.
Yeah, that would have been a fun RP. But you see, it was Maji and Seyda discussing it and it being what I would consider legitimate instead of having to use a thrall and/or creating a disguise/costume. To me, and I state this is my opinion, having a thrall that's played by myself to relay info to Maji that way would be crossing. So I guess I'm in that percentage that thinks it's not ok. Eh.. it's ok to disagree.
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Damia
New Member
Posts: 186
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 20:49:10 GMT -8
Post by Damia on Nov 22, 2009 20:49:10 GMT -8
>> Can I just say thank god the other thread ended?
Ok beyond that.
Spies are good. If done right, played right and no fishy "Somehow I got this info even though technically the place I got it from I couldn't have listened in" is great.
And it seems like some of those universal rp rules the rest of us know, some don't.
To me, you can easily have an alt to spy for you, name it an employee or whatever and have it bring back info.
The way this can be messed up is exactly how it was. Someone takes info from a closed thread..or maybe from a conversation where its ooc and not ic (and the amount of times I have seen this does boggle the mind.) And then passes it through their main to whoever they are supposed to.
Me I am firm believer in mains can spy. But sometimes that can be hard if you have a main who is well known say Damari? as an example heh.
So in those cases I can more understand the alt who perhaps is ic a secret informant, telling, though I think its a bit iffy still. But if you take the information from say all those open convos one can have in a family home or clan area..But the bad part is when the above stated badness happens..and its allowed.
That I am not ok with. Perhaps those who are sending spies out should clarify that part..but if something is not clearly open to public knowledge with that spy (main or alt) then before you pass it along, maybe you should look at it carefully. Or ask the person your giving the info to "Hey if this was in a closed room, where no one could have been, and never talked about in public..is it crossing or actual knowledge?"
<< Anyways just my feelings. Though it does seem lately there are a lot of failed spies lol.
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 20:54:08 GMT -8
Post by ophelia Lokason on Nov 22, 2009 20:54:08 GMT -8
"That I am not ok with. Perhaps those who are sending spies out should clarify that part..but if something is not clearly open to public knowledge with that spy (main or alt) then before you pass it along, maybe you should look at it carefully. Or ask the person your giving the info to "Hey if this was in a closed room, where no one could have been, and never talked about in public..is it crossing or actual knowledge?"" I answered in part this in another thread. If someone took or recieved information from a 'closed thread' then they need to own it. Its a mistake some of us have made at LEAST once. I won't comment on this beyond what I just did as I do not want to drag over from that 'other' thread to her. Even if it wasn't directed at me ~M
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Damia
New Member
Posts: 186
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 21:02:10 GMT -8
Post by Damia on Nov 22, 2009 21:02:10 GMT -8
It wasn't It was more of a general "teach your spies right?" statement lol And no one wants to drag that other thread here *stacks the sandbags so it won't get in* << And I was saying more of "if it was known that there was no way for the info to be used" It seems like in some cases it isn't and it is a true mistake.. But as has been seen, such mistakes then make everybody on said side of spy..look not so good in an ooc player sense.
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 21:08:39 GMT -8
Post by ophelia Lokason on Nov 22, 2009 21:08:39 GMT -8
Ummm..did one of the players here that have comment not have a character not their main in Die Nachthexen. Just a question.
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 21:32:54 GMT -8
Post by Majica on Nov 22, 2009 21:32:54 GMT -8
Ummm..did one of the players here that have comment not have a character not their main in Die Nachthexen. Just a question. Ummm.. that charrie was not a spy, thank you. John/jam was a friend of mine. So not the same thing as playing a spy. No comparison in fact. And Michelle, my name is Monica. I would appreciate it if you would use it. Edit cause it's late and I can't spell
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Elektra
New Member
Obsession. Compulsion. Perfection.[C01:Grey]
Posts: 950
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 21:37:48 GMT -8
Post by Elektra on Nov 22, 2009 21:37:48 GMT -8
Lek was a spy once, or attempted to be one... *fails horribly at spying* She made her decisions known ICly to certain people, then got a newly made pire to pose as one. I don't see how that is crossing, as she clearly had IC intentions, told key IC people (instead of OOC) and garnered information ICly. When she was found out, Lek was zeroed and that was that. End of story (and spying career).
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 21:39:10 GMT -8
Post by ophelia Lokason on Nov 22, 2009 21:39:10 GMT -8
Ummm..did one of the players here that have comment not have a character not their main in Die Nachthexen. Just a question. Ummm.. that charrie was not a spy, thank you. John/jam was a friend of mine. So not the same thing as playing a spy. No comparison in fact. And Michelle, my name is Monica. I would appreciate it if you would use it. Edit cause it's late and I can't spell Your smart assery is not necessary as I didn't know it was you, or rather recall clearly. And rather than make base ohh what about you I decided to ask. So chill k. thanks. *edited for clarification since the post was not directed toward MONICA specifically*
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 21:41:07 GMT -8
Post by Majica on Nov 22, 2009 21:41:07 GMT -8
Your smart assery is not necessary as I didn't know it was you. So chill k. thanks. Eh.. my bad. Apologies.
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 21:42:04 GMT -8
Post by ophelia Lokason on Nov 22, 2009 21:42:04 GMT -8
No worries, and sorry for sounding so bitchy. Believe it or not, I'm a super nice person.
~M
*remodifies other thingie dingie*
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Boomerangele
New Member
Pleasurably Pink[C01:white]
Posts: 593
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 22:19:24 GMT -8
Post by Boomerangele on Nov 22, 2009 22:19:24 GMT -8
My philosophy is more aligned with that of Moon's human (Josh?)
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Moons
New Member
Posts: 863
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 22:26:39 GMT -8
Post by Moons on Nov 22, 2009 22:26:39 GMT -8
Josh or Joshua, either works (Sub-texted due to lack of validity to the argument, though I felt the need to reply).
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