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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 12:43:24 GMT -8
Post by black_dragonet on Nov 23, 2009 12:43:24 GMT -8
Well, as a human, I don't lie usually, because I'm an apalling liar. So the easiest thing to do it to tell the truth. All I do is present the truth in a way I feel people might misunderstand...
One thing I feel important to state: This game, and the hypotetical spy, are IC. Noone should ask OC questions. People might wish to share OOC stuff, but if someone comes to me and asks OOC questions, they might meet a mind your own F. business.
I'll speak OOC when and if I feel like it, and if I do and the other one does not, then I'll understand and keep it to IC.
I know multi characters are tricky, which is why I waited more than five years to play petit_prince. Actually, I played him with a few choice people, and I ended up building him a new and funny personality, one I found didn't exist in he city until now. I have a few alts, and though I don't feel I'll any day get into spying, since petit_prince cannot and will not be clanned, it it were to happen, it got me thoughts about what would be the right thing to do. Answer's simple: clearly separate your characters, and eliminate any doubt. The information goes to one vampire, the one that's the spy, not to the other. Simple as that.
I remember one day when I had two windows. One with dragonet speaking to one person, the other with petit_prince speaking to the partnerbound to the first vampire. I had each vampire tell the other that no, they had never met their partner. Of course, I had to shoot an OOC comment to one of the two, and we got a good laugh from that.
Spying, and all that goes with it can be real fun, and devoid of crossing, if things are properly separated right from the start.
Spying is a vampire disguising as another to get some information that benefits them, not a player putting a thrall in a place to get knowledge to be passed to all his vampires. In that, a player telling petit_prince or dragonet he's away does not mean it's okay to use that OOC knowledge to attack IC.
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seyda
New Member
Posts: 844
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 12:46:19 GMT -8
Post by seyda on Nov 23, 2009 12:46:19 GMT -8
Does having "webcam" in the Halls make Coquette a spy? It's the one thrall that I do use to garner information (anymore, I had other webbies but they died *wails) and 'he' is roleplayed as a piece of technology that is Bluetooth'd to Coquette's laptop in her Bite office to catch soundbits of conversations in the Halls and gain information to post about bindings. Everyone knows webcam is directly linked to Coquette, he's not a different 'vampire', and he/it doesn't have a different player. Is that spying, or is that an instance where it's a okay? Yes to both. You've created a story around what the alt is and what it's doing. So to 100% technical, yes, it's a spy character. You have a story behind it IC, and generally most spies do have an IC story for their "masks." I don't think it's wrong at all. Now, if you used webcam to gain information and then got upset and cried OOC foul because someone got a spy character onto your clan/family board, then I'd call hypocrite. It's simply something that cannot be defended when one does it but condemned when done against them. *shrug*
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rel
New Member
byrren jous ninta yibinss wun ninta xo'a ulu kl'ae vel'bol zhah udosst..er'griff l' seke ph' shebali
Posts: 1,013
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 12:49:38 GMT -8
Post by rel on Nov 23, 2009 12:49:38 GMT -8
Go away for a few hours! In regards to the question can a character be good? Oh they can...this is totally a derailment hAHAHA. Crusader types and paladins can of course be 'good' in alignment even though they're in a warring clan, which is a great combination to play. But the whole thieving aspect isn't really all that 'good' would you say?
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 12:56:30 GMT -8
Post by Mandolin on Nov 23, 2009 12:56:30 GMT -8
As a player who used their main to spy many years ago, I'ma wiggle on in here with an opinion. Back in 2005, Mando was kicked from CAA because Mooncalf thought she was a spy since she posted in the COVE under a different name. That different name got noticed and ended up in Seraphim while Mando ended up in SIE. The other pire was Cadence. *shock, awe* Cadence, being Mando's childe, has a valid RP reason for passing Seraphim info to her sire. Mando and Cadence both ended up supplying info to CAA and were eventually caught, booted, and attacked. During Cadence's time in Seraphim I was asked a lot of OOC questions about who I was, if I lived with Mando's human, how well did we know each other, etc. I lied about some of it, mostly because I'd only been RPing for about 6 months and wasn't really sure how to handle the situation. Like Seyda said, back then having more than one character was a huge no no. I wasn't comfortable with the lying. At the same time, I was even more uncomfortable with the OOC prodding. If someone knows you RP more that one pire, that word gets around no matter if it's IC or OOC and people will always find a way to take that knowledge and make it IC. I knew saying 'Yeah, I'm behind both Mando and Cay' would not only get me in trouble, but it would get both booted from the clans before I had a chance to get any info. It is harder to spy now and I think it involves more deception on both IC and OOC levels. However, if you're going to spy and you do it well, it can make for some fun RP
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rel
New Member
byrren jous ninta yibinss wun ninta xo'a ulu kl'ae vel'bol zhah udosst..er'griff l' seke ph' shebali
Posts: 1,013
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 12:59:43 GMT -8
Post by rel on Nov 23, 2009 12:59:43 GMT -8
Spy characters are awesome. I will NEVER forget the night that intelpete from TIC showed up and said to Seyda, "You will be attacked by the Cap Clan in 5 minutes." Turns out, he thought he was talking to Sapphira. Spies have been around since the beginning of this city. Sartori did it, CBK did it, intelpete did it, and several others that weren't as good at it did so as well. Coming into this game and bringing your rules from other games and using that as fodder to condemn people OOCly is akin to coming into this game and deciding that the first years of it aren't legitimate because you played XYZ and that's not how they do it there. Well, this isn't there. This is this game, and this is what happened from the time of it's inception. The older players have made concessions for this new dynamic and have started letting multi-character players in (trust me, this is a recent concession for a LOT of older players). I believe that a concession that there is a type of way that this game has been played since it's inception, and to accept that rather than branding anyone playing that way bastards OOC would be appropriate in return. intelpete was great at it, yet a lot was prior to the time of tags and he did it with his main. He was my first experience with a 'spy' and i was totally floored when I found out. HA! It's why ooc land is muddy. This IS a game. You have minions who gather information in shops. They usually aren't characters. They're an extension of the main. It's the same with spies. It's the standard. If you don't like it, then your choice is NOT to play a spy. Seems pretty simple to me...
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Elektra
New Member
Obsession. Compulsion. Perfection.[C01:Grey]
Posts: 950
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 13:04:54 GMT -8
Post by Elektra on Nov 23, 2009 13:04:54 GMT -8
Well, as a human, I don't lie usually, because I'm an apalling liar. So the easiest thing to do it to tell the truth. All I do is present the truth in a way I feel people might misunderstand... HAHAHAHA!!! Nice.
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Spies
Dec 2, 2009 2:22:04 GMT -8
Post by jim on Dec 2, 2009 2:22:04 GMT -8
So because some people are crossers, a game full of "fibbers" is okay. That's dreadful. Little kids are taught fibbing and lying are the same thing. But its the internet, so its okay? The game needs spice, so actual roleplaying doesn't matter at all... It doesn't matter. Most of the people here don't believe the truth. It's easier to just lie and have to answer fewer questions.
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Spies
Dec 2, 2009 17:48:54 GMT -8
Post by Jean DeVenn on Dec 2, 2009 17:48:54 GMT -8
My view on spies is generally pretty relaxed, as long as it's done well.
When I was part of the team running the Ferry, I found I had a very different view to most. As a clan leader, if someone (spy or not) pulls their weight and hits when ordered, they are a useful asset to the clan. The only issue then is ensuring that all true secrets (and let's face it, there aren't actually THAT many of them, the rest is just gossip) are kept at a senior enough level.
I have also run a couple of spies, one for an extended period. I was careful initially to avoid any OOC interaction at all. After a while, it became unavoidable, and then I made sure that everything I said was the truth, but was careful what I said. The one thing I didn't give (amazingly I was never asked !) was my human name.
The real issue I had was that after playing my spy for such a period of time, he started to become a truly independent character, and gain loyalty to the clan he had been inserted into (maybe I'm weird, to be able to have two characters each loyal to a different clan...). Although he'd still pass back all the info he could find out, in every other respect he was a fully active clan member, making positive contributions to ideas and taking part in hits. Luckily the two clans didn't have a war while he was there.
One thing I did do, when I pulled the spy out, was to come clean OOC to the players of the key people I'd interacted with. Generally, they took it better than expected, I guess partly because I had always been honest OOC.
Mind you, it was fun being a spy ! Probably the best bit was when a big spy-hunt was on. He was in the frame for a bit, but I used him to divert attention to someone else, who was promptly thrown out of the clan. I felt slightly guilty until a while later, when I found out THAT character was really a spy as well !
((Edited for spelling... heck, it's late over here !)
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Spies
Dec 2, 2009 19:13:34 GMT -8
Post by melkya on Dec 2, 2009 19:13:34 GMT -8
If I had melkya running a clan, I would prefer that the player of a pontential spy come to me and say "Hey, so and so's clan wants them to spy on melkya's clan, what do you think?" 9 times out of 10, I'll probably agree with the idea. It'll be more fun to have the ability to sit down and think up all kinds rp's about what info gets passed, what's real info, and what turns out to be false. The problem that I've seen is this, the majority of "role playing" that I've seen of late is more, and I can't really find a better term right now, "Childish bickering" than full evolving stories. That may just be me however.
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Rena
New Member
Warmonger
Posts: 192
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Spies
Dec 3, 2009 8:01:15 GMT -8
Post by Rena on Dec 3, 2009 8:01:15 GMT -8
Kenosha was and could probably still be one of THE best spy masters in the city. CBK without a doubt. Mmm..Lucius gave it a go but he preferred to be getting the information FROM the spy master. I've gotta say though, aren't the "best" spy masters probably the ones who no one knows about? >.> lmao. Just thinking This thread is pretty interesting, good discussion *lurks s'more* <.<
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Elektra
New Member
Obsession. Compulsion. Perfection.[C01:Grey]
Posts: 950
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Spies
Dec 3, 2009 8:18:13 GMT -8
Post by Elektra on Dec 3, 2009 8:18:13 GMT -8
*tackles Ellerena* Youuuuuuu...
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Damia
New Member
Posts: 186
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Spies
Dec 3, 2009 9:00:23 GMT -8
Post by Damia on Dec 3, 2009 9:00:23 GMT -8
>> *runstacklesandkidnapsellen*
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hairbear
New Member
Venimus Atque Infernum Nobiscum
Posts: 320
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Spies
Dec 4, 2009 7:00:24 GMT -8
Post by hairbear on Dec 4, 2009 7:00:24 GMT -8
I love spies, they make the game great. If you're good enough to pull it off, kudos.
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