rel
New Member
byrren jous ninta yibinss wun ninta xo'a ulu kl'ae vel'bol zhah udosst..er'griff l' seke ph' shebali
Posts: 1,013
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Spies
Nov 22, 2009 22:28:17 GMT -8
Post by rel on Nov 22, 2009 22:28:17 GMT -8
..and that may be why your character of boomer is neutral. If I create a spy, then that character is rel in disguise. With a blond wig, a new name, a fake passport, perhaps an accent. I use everything that I can at my disposal to keep her identity secret. Cell phones with no tracing devices, getting into war with allies to keep my cover, anything and everything necessary so that I am not found out. That isn't crossing. There's nothing about that which crossing any lines. If that spy is caught then REL is responsible and should be dealt with. It's not another character, it's a spy. It's stupid hard, and only for those who can truly keep everything straight, but yes...that spy is a liar. Because it's a friggin spy I remember with 'lektra's spy was found out. I remember a great friend of rel's in the SC dojo was found out to be a spy from HoH I believe? NO idea. Was shocked actually, but in the best possible way as a player cause it was like DAYUM you totally got me! It's brilliant writing opportunities, it's what has made the clans who have ascended to power stay there, and it's a part of our crazy world. If you don't like it that's find, but to call it crossing is a REALLY big stretch...
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Elektra
New Member
Obsession. Compulsion. Perfection.[C01:Grey]
Posts: 950
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 3:32:45 GMT -8
Post by Elektra on Nov 23, 2009 3:32:45 GMT -8
BAHA. I remember how I found out Poo once ran a spy that totally got on with Trulykath. >.> I was all, "Hmmm... I remember that name... O.O OMG. THAT WAS YOU???" *dies*
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◞◯◟
New Member
IGN: upir
Posts: 759
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 4:13:10 GMT -8
Post by ◞◯◟ on Nov 23, 2009 4:13:10 GMT -8
I don't think it's necessary to lie to have a character as a spy, although if you're going long-term with that then it might be unavoidable. Upir was technically a spy during the war between the D'dary and Scions of the Phoenix. I say "technically" because Upir himself would never be a legit spy due to his code of honor, and not once was there lying from me or my character. He was merely lightly pushed into joining the Scions by Andre and Sartori, having already been kind of invited by Murrz. He'd never been in a clan before so it was an interesting opportunity that didn't take much motivation to take, and once in Upir just shared some information with the other side. From an OOC standpoint I'd agree that it was spying although it lasted less than a week, although IC it's debatable.
I was personally kind of disappointed by how easy it was and there was zero retaliation towards upir afterwards. The former, likely because Upir was a main vampire who had a childe in the Scions, and no one expected him to break traditional clan protocols by sharing information with the enemy. The latter, probably because the Scions just got their asses handed to them by the D'dary and Upir still had his Battlecloak at that point.
I don't think anyone has to lie, IC or OOC, or Cross, and mains should be used whenever possible to help prevent crossing. Spying's alright in my book (at least on an OOC basis) because it affords some interesting RP opportunities.
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 4:52:02 GMT -8
Post by black_dragonet on Nov 23, 2009 4:52:02 GMT -8
With regard to spying, I find myself in a funny situation, which I hope could help clearing things a bit…
I play both black_dragonet, honour and truth driven vampire, and petit_prince, mean bastard. Two separate characters. I don’t want any of petit_prince’s shit to be brought to dragonet, except if it’s done IC. Dragonet being dragonet could NEVER do something like spying, be it as himself, or under a disguise. He could (and did) try to have people thing he is someone else then he is (at a costumed ball), but if directly asked, would tell who he is. Hence, he couldn’t remain a spy very long. Petit_prince has no such qualms, and could want to be a spy. Then, he would shave, put on a wig, alter his appearance, and try to enter, say Nightwatch or Ygg, hiding who he is. Let’s say for example’s sake that he does it under the name littlespy. Littlespy is petit_prince in disguise, hence the same character, only hiding his real name and appearance. If littlespy were to be discovered as a spy, then there’s no zeroing littlespy, for littlespy does not exist as a character… The one to be zeroed would have to be petit_prince.
To RP is cleanly, the “grid vampire” littlespy should completely stop being moved/played, for everybody knows it’s onlt petit_prince with a wig. Hence, there would be no crossing. The one paying the price is petit_prince, because he’s the one acting. Littlespy has never really existed…
Now don’t come angry at dragonet, because he has no knowledge whatsoever of what petit_prince or littlespy do. Ask him, and he’ll be very angered at petit_prince. The trick is that knowledge gained by littlespy can only be given to petit_prince. Nothing the previous two (one single character under two names) know is known by dragonet, else it WOULD be crossing.
One of the keys towards managing that is to be transparent with regard to how many CHARACTERS we players play. I play two, and I intend to play a third one someday. When that third one becomes active, then you shall know. It protects them. I have a few alts, whom petit_prince might someday use to disguise himself, though I don’t think I player will, for it would mean the alt has to be discarded when and if he is discovered. Those alts could help bring intel to petit_prince, without crossing. If he’s found, hitting petit_prince IS hitting the spy, who’s always been him.
That’s how I see spying, and I think is could and should work that way.
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 5:44:55 GMT -8
Post by Majica on Nov 23, 2009 5:44:55 GMT -8
Real spies lie. In order to have a believable spy you have to lie. You have to keep lying and you have to be okay with lying. There is no ‘gentleman’s ooc rules of engagement’ honour in spying because the only way to go about it, IC and OOC is to lie to people, IC and OOC. While I can appreciate what you're saying, RB is not real. It's a game. Real spies may lie, but if I'm talking to someone OOC, I expect the truth from then. Otherwise, it makes them, the player, an unworthy and dishonest person and someone I'd rather not be playing with. Sorry, I'll take integrity as a player over a silly game any day.
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 6:31:43 GMT -8
Post by Penny Shadowlight on Nov 23, 2009 6:31:43 GMT -8
..and that may be why your character of boomer is neutral. If I create a spy, then that character is rel in disguise. With a blond wig, a new name, a fake passport, perhaps an accent. I use everything that I can at my disposal to keep her identity secret. Cell phones with no tracing devices, getting into war with allies to keep my cover, anything and everything necessary so that I am not found out. That isn't crossing. There's nothing about that which crossing any lines. If that spy is caught then REL is responsible and should be dealt with. It's not another character, it's a spy. It's stupid hard, and only for those who can truly keep everything straight, but yes...that spy is a liar. Because it's a friggin spy But would you create a persona OOC to go along with the blond wig wearing rel? Thats the thing I am trying to figure out, and people keep using really vague terms when it comes to it, other then Damari's player. I think that is what people (myself included) are having a hard time with. Why make a liar of yourself out of character for a game? Thats not roleplaying, its being morally bent. Roleplaying would be what Kaelani did. That was amazing to read from the sidelines. And there are other characters who have done that sort of spying and pulled it off very well without making a liar of the player.
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Elektra
New Member
Obsession. Compulsion. Perfection.[C01:Grey]
Posts: 950
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 7:04:00 GMT -8
Post by Elektra on Nov 23, 2009 7:04:00 GMT -8
Here's another question to consider: What if the person you were spying on (or someone else) turned from IC to OOC on you? Do you lie OOC to protect your cover or do you readily admit that your character was spying?
I lied to Poo, but when he found out, it didn't matter for both of us because we were both in the spy game - we knew how it was played out. And look at us, no love lost, in fact, we laugh over it. Others might take it a little harder, especially those who've not played a spy before, but I think you gotta look at the circumstances before passing judgement. But that's just me.
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 7:27:30 GMT -8
Post by Penny Shadowlight on Nov 23, 2009 7:27:30 GMT -8
Here's another question to consider: What if the person you were spying on (or someone else) turned from IC to OOC on you? Do you lie OOC to protect your cover or do you readily admit that your character was spying? You shouldn't have to lie OOC, if you're roleplaying. If the other person asks OOC if its a spy it would make sense to say "yes, I'm this person". They can't use that info against you IC, so why lie.
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Jocelyn
New Member
Curious
Posts: 135
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 7:47:18 GMT -8
Post by Jocelyn on Nov 23, 2009 7:47:18 GMT -8
Because some people suck and can't handle the ic/ooc differences and drag it back ic or then know HOW to use it against you and can "figure out" who the spy is blah blah, bullshit. Spying is fun, simple. OOC I tend to keep what passes to myself, no one ever asks therefore I don't tell. If I was asked straight up questions about a past character or current, i'd tell them if I felt the need to. I accept spying, sucks when it happens to your character and they get screwed over by it, but hey, that's the game! - Andie.
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 7:52:20 GMT -8
Post by ladypeacek on Nov 23, 2009 7:52:20 GMT -8
Because despite ALL the protests from anyone about not being a crosser- if you KNEW the new clan member was a spy IC- if a human had that info- our human nature simply wouldn't allow us to have our characters trust them. Rather than try to deny that fact, we accept that we WILL lie to one another if necessary to add a little conflict to the game. As long as they are harmless fibs- who cares?
I don't NEED to know where another player lives, or what their real name is in order to create a good role play- so lie to me, won't hurt ME in the end. Having a few talks OOC isnt so bad, as long as you respect the other person enough, not ever to share those talks once the gig is up. THAT is what makes the difference. If you stick to that rule, the other players may be able to have a good laugh in the end, when you are caught and come clean. Reassure them that the OOC talks were genuinely nice to have, and you hope they continue, but either way, they are being kept guarded and not being used to hurt anyone OOCly.
Like Rob's description, when emotions get involved it can get sticky, through your fibs, you MUST ensure that they are not so close that a romantic relationship is being built on said lie. Have your fake persona be married, or involved to take away that risk...and stick to it. No one goes into spying to be hurtful OOC- they do it to add flavor to the game, something all can enjoy as players watching it unfold. Keeping that in mind makes a few fibs much easier to take.
With all that said, I have known a few players in my time that lie about their humans right from the start for their main- with no intentions to be a spy. I mean, this IS the internet, and as harmless as this game may seem it CAN have people with less than good intentions roaming about and safety is imperative, especially to those with kids. That should be easy enough to understand- or we would all be willy nilly posting our addresses to a public forum. So if you keep that in mind, a few fibs to spy is really no big deal.
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 8:04:23 GMT -8
Post by Penny Shadowlight on Nov 23, 2009 8:04:23 GMT -8
So because some people are crossers, a game full of "fibbers" is okay. That's dreadful. Little kids are taught fibbing and lying are the same thing. But its the internet, so its okay? The game needs spice, so actual roleplaying doesn't matter at all...
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Damia
New Member
Posts: 186
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 8:15:35 GMT -8
Post by Damia on Nov 23, 2009 8:15:35 GMT -8
>> It is.. and if they don't ask if your spying..then no biggie >.>
*cough* *innocent cough*
<< The only spying Damia did...and was never found out lol..was against AA. >> What was funny is technically..she got caught..by like 3 others...and AA believe her over them. Though she did feel bad that the others weren't believed..had to say that was hilarious to me. And ooc I never had to lie about anything.. Course at that point I was so disgusted by ooc bs on there parts..I refused to talk ooc to them. >>
*sighs over memories*
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Elektra
New Member
Obsession. Compulsion. Perfection.[C01:Grey]
Posts: 950
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 8:19:43 GMT -8
Post by Elektra on Nov 23, 2009 8:19:43 GMT -8
So because some people are crossers, a game full of "fibbers" is okay. That's dreadful. Little kids are taught fibbing and lying are the same thing. But its the internet, so its okay? The game needs spice, so actual roleplaying doesn't matter at all... Basically the fibs that 'need' to be (or usually are) told are:- Where you live? What you do? Are you a spy? So you've never fibbed before? I'm sure everyone has, and about worse things too.
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rel
New Member
byrren jous ninta yibinss wun ninta xo'a ulu kl'ae vel'bol zhah udosst..er'griff l' seke ph' shebali
Posts: 1,013
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 8:32:49 GMT -8
Post by rel on Nov 23, 2009 8:32:49 GMT -8
BAHA. I remember how I found out Poo once ran a spy that totally got on with Trulykath. >.> I was all, "Hmmm... I remember that name... O.O OMG. THAT WAS YOU???" *dies* *blinks* omg...OH MY G-D that was John? WE THOUGHT THAT PLAYER WENT TO WAR! wow, i bow my hat to him...holy hell, had NO idea...
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rel
New Member
byrren jous ninta yibinss wun ninta xo'a ulu kl'ae vel'bol zhah udosst..er'griff l' seke ph' shebali
Posts: 1,013
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Spies
Nov 23, 2009 8:43:03 GMT -8
Post by rel on Nov 23, 2009 8:43:03 GMT -8
The game is to win. What does that mean? Different things for different people depending on what your goals are. If you're playing an evil character then you may have them lying all the time. There are only a select few that really know me, and that's because I want REL to be the focus. She is who you interact with, not me. I stay IC. That's my choice. If I'm writing with someone else, sure that's kinda ooc. Friendships made within a clan CAN go ooc, but even then for many within SC I was still just rel. Why? She's fun to play, this is about playing the character, why in the world would I waste what time I DO get here yappin about nonsense. Yes, I do laundry, I'm at work, I'm cleaning, I'm in a show so I can't be around...we all put those ooc things up but for me, it's to let YOU know that Rel isn't around right now. Yes - to the question above someone asked. If I create a spy persona then her name could be Ruby, and she'd be from Russia and English would be her second language, and she'd need guidance with her quests, perhaps a sire who would make her feel a part of something. She would venture into the ghettos to weed through the dribble to listen for the gems of information being stated every night. Then, at any given prior time, she would give all of that information to whomever she was working for. It's a spy. haven't you ever seen a movie? It's a part you're playing to gain information about your enemy. *blinks* seems fairly obvious that you'd do anything so that the clan you're royal to wins. IF YOU ARE EVIL. If your character isn't...then you wouldn't. You'd find that abominable, and that too would be great to write. OH - to the character of Upir - that's classic spying when you're unaffiliated and kudos to you that you were able to do it. There are many out there who were handpicked from dojos and schools around this city who's entire unlife has been spying as themselves. Like I said, whatever floats your boat. But, please - in general, no longer to Upir - to pontificate about the ooc ramifications and place morals on it? That's a wee bit silly.
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